Thread: 22lr vs pcp

Thanks for the replies, plenty to think about on this one, ill continue the research and ill make an decision based on the research.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Have you tested any since they went to their own manufacture of hammer rifled barrels? I've had 3 Ruger 22 barrels in a row that shot extremely well. . .

which model ruger were these @Tentman ?

The one I still have is an early varmint version sometimes called a "LVL", it has the distinctive hammer rifle swirl and is extremely accurate (some years ago there was a forum 22 postal shoot, my 10/22 won the semi auto class). I don't think they kept up the swirl versions but most 10/22s after 2000 or so should be hammer rifled (they started with the new machinery in 1991 and gradually phased it in.

But 10-22s are still what I'd call fussy, you need to fiddle with various aspects like barrel clamp torques, bedding etc to get them into the fast lane. I like them. I'd sell mine (without the Kidd trigger) and commence playing with another one if you were interested in getting one you'd know was worth working up. Its in a bedded magpul hunter stock, barrel at 16" and would come with a standard but worked on trigger.

Owned a 10/22 earily 80s it shot pretty average, it got it's ass kicked by a carbine mini 30 look alike Marlin. Perhaps my bad shooting. Owned several Marlins since then & think the micro groove rifling was way above Rugers accuracy ability. Last Marlin a papoose had alsorts of feed problems, tried to buy parts but, Marlin is now owned by Ruger & they didn't want to know. Next is a Savage bolt action again all sorts of feed problems.

Conclusion, American firearms while having some excellent engineering but are not great on quality, they have cheapened production costs, which is not what we in pay in NZ. Unless you can afford the top stuff from USA don't bother. Nearest firearm I own with USA dna is a CZ 457.

Originally Posted by Tentman

It also depends on how much you like faffing about with rifles, pcps can be fussy to get into tune, and also to maintain it. Once a 22 is sorted and you buy a brick of ammo its sorted untill ya need another brick!

Until the ammo quality turns to shit like how Winchester subs got buggered after Oz production stopped...

Originally Posted by flock

Owned a 10/22 earily 80s it shot pretty average, it got it's ass kicked by a carbine mini 30 look alike Marlin. Perhaps my bad shooting. Owned several Marlins since then & think the micro groove rifling was way above Rugers accuracy ability. Last Marlin a papoose had alsorts of feed problems, tried to buy parts but, Marlin is now owned by Ruger & they didn't want to know. Next is a Savage bolt action again all sorts of feed problems.

Conclusion, American firearms while having some excellent engineering but are not great on quality, they have cheapened production costs, which is not what we in pay in NZ. Unless you can afford the top stuff from USA don't bother. Nearest firearm I own with USA dna is a CZ 457.

what model cz457 if i changed my mind and went for a bolt this would be high on the list, i assume it shoots quite well

Originally Posted by Tentman

The one I still have is an early varmint version sometimes called a "LVL", it has the distinctive hammer rifle swirl and is extremely accurate (some years ago there was a forum 22 postal shoot, my 10/22 won the semi auto class). I don't think they kept up the swirl versions but most 10/22s after 2000 or so should be hammer rifled (they started with the new machinery in 1991 and gradually phased it in.

But 10-22s are still what I'd call fussy, you need to fiddle with various aspects like barrel clamp torques, bedding etc to get them into the fast lane. I like them. I'd sell mine (without the Kidd trigger) and commence playing with another one if you were interested in getting one you'd know was worth working up. Its in a bedded magpul hunter stock, barrel at 16" and would come with a standard but worked on trigger.

Thanks for the advice and offer. i dont mind a bit of mucking around getting one to shoot half decent. I will keep your offer in mind while i continue researching down the rabbit hole haha

CZ 457 Royale, shoots well, I hollow point target ammo, to get the best results, for hunting. Have mates with the Tikka 22s & they are good 2

The advantages of PCP are:
* Quieter with no recoil.
* Good for shooting birds (less risk of stray bullet).
* Cheaper to shoot if you shoot a lot and only use high end ammo.
* Higher scores shooting Field Target.

The downsides are:

* For the same money, 22LR rifles are more accurate than PCP. you cannot gets PCP for 1300 that is as accurate as T1X. Most decent PCP are abut 3~4k, for that money you can get Anshuctz 1712.
* Even with accurate PCPs, they can only hang with 22LR up to maybe 80m. Beyond that 22LR is better and the gap gets bigger as you go further. 40 grain > 20~30 grain, laws of physics.
* PCP also requires you to keep a tank and buy air, extra cost and hassle.
* PCP guns are heavier, bulkier, and more delicate so IMO they are less practical for hunting.

Over the years I have contemplated buying PCP many times, I just cannot bring myself to the trouble of fiddling with air and tanks. With 22LR, you pick up the gun and shoot, and you go home and put it into the safe. Dont have to think about a thing.

Ultimitsu that was a-great sum up I agree unless you have a dedicated use for PCP such as pigeon or vermin control not worth the hassle -

I'm rather interested in the 22LR vs PCP thing. The question for me, apart from cost and maintenance, is this: what's the difference between them for the same projectile weight/profile shot at the same muzzle velocity?

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

The advantages of PCP are:
* Quieter with no recoil.
* Good for shooting birds (less risk of stray bullet).
* Cheaper to shoot if you shoot a lot and only use high end ammo.

I would challenge those:
- quieter, I shoot subs with DPT cans, and all I can hear is the click of the trigger and the thump of the impact
- 22's have recoil? Basic physics states that if you spit something out of a barrel there will be an equal and opposite force on the rifle (aka recoil). The only mitigations are a lighter bullet, and a heavier rifle (which masks recoil)
- cheaper to shoot - you can pick up a Rossi 24/scope/suppressor bundle new for $440, and the ammo I use is $100/500 rounds (but there is cheaper). When you compare that against the total PCP cost (rifle, tank, tank recharges, and good quality pellets/slugs) how does it work out?

Originally Posted by vulcannz

I would challenge those:
- quieter, I shoot subs with DPT cans, and all I can hear is the click of the trigger and the thump of the impact
- 22's have recoil? Basic physics states that if you spit something out of a barrel there will be an equal and opposite force on the rifle (aka recoil). The only mitigations are a lighter bullet, and a heavier rifle (which masks recoil)
- cheaper to shoot - you can pick up a Rossi 24/scope/suppressor bundle new for $440, and the ammo I use is $100/500 rounds (but there is cheaper). When you compare that against the total PCP cost (rifle, tank, tank recharges, and good quality pellets/slugs) how does it work out?

I address each point:

Quiet? With cans, they are about the same. But PCP don't always need a can to be sufficiently quiet.

Recoil? I agree with your analysis. But in practice all these things you mention all contribute the lack of recoil in PCPs: PCP guns are heavier (average 4~6KG) than average 22 hunting rifles (average 2.5-3.5 KG); most PCP shooter shoot sub-20 grain pellets vs 22LR subs are usually 40 grain; most PCP shoot at ~900 FPS compared to 950~1070 FPS of 22LR subs.

Cheaper to shoot? Low end 22LR subs or SV are about $900~1000 per 5000 vs low end 22 pellets are about $220 per 5000. High end 22LR (e.g. Eley match, not the highest end) are about $3000 per 5000 vs high end 22 pellets are ~$830 per 5000 (e.g. H&N .22 Precision 33gr).

Originally Posted by Jhon

I'm rather interested in the 22LR vs PCP thing. The question for me, apart from cost and maintenance, is this: what's the difference between them for the same projectile weight/profile shot at the same muzzle velocity?

Same projectile, same velocity, same twist rate = no difference in external ballistis, PCPs generally shoot lighter projectiles though, which decelerate faster than heavier projectiles, all other factors being equal.

Ive shot one of those steyr pcps. Fuk that thing was surgical