300 Win Mag or 300WSM?

I understand that there's nothing much in it balistically (that a deer would notice anyway) between the two calibres, and there would be a weight difference in the same model of rifle (in this example a Kimber Montana) with the Win Mag being heavier due to longer action length, but that aside anyone have a view on either calibre?

I'm not a reloader, so for the foreseeable its factory ammo for me. Looking around the shops and online, there is more choice and availability in Win Mag with the WSM being a less common cartridge, which lends me to favour the Win Mag.

I know action length is a factor, but that is something that I can get familiar with either way.

I guess my sticking point is if I'm not reloading my own rounds, is a WSM a more bespoke rifle best left to reloaders? Or is it simple a matter of bulk buying WSM rounds to avoid having to be on the search for more due to supply problems when i start running low.

My understanding is wsms are harder on barrels

Factory WSM ammo not a lot more than WM. Especially if it’s just shooting the odd deer. I find WSM recoils slightly different, bit shorter and sharper. But if you’re just shooting the odd deer, you’re not going to notice it. Also, are you set on a magnum cartridge? Are the ranges you’re shooting going to warrant the need for one? Nothing wrong with just wanting one just because, but a lot of the time people get by just fine without a magnum cartridge, less recoil, lower cost etc

I have had both and currently have a win Mag. Ballisticlly no real difference. If you compared a Win Mag and WSM say in Tikka the weight difference would be minimal. Some don't like the belt on the case so would favour the WSM. Factory ammo would favour the Win Mag. Both will do the same job so it's really up to the individual which one you choose.

From guys siting in at my place and also shooting them on the hill, both are bloody loud with a big pressure wave so both need a suppressor.
The Wsm is better from what I have seen - uses less powder for the same velocity with bullets less than 180's and so is easier to suppress and keep light.

Both will get the job done, but .300WM comes into its own with 200+ grain projectiles.

I have a 26” .300WM that throws 208 ELD-Ms at 2980fps, which a .300WSM will not do. .300WSM is more efficient with shorter barrels and will be lighter and handier, but both need a brake or moderator.

That said, I don’t think either are necessary for NZ hunting. Get what you want, but the range of 6.5 and 7mm high BC projectiles and efficient, lower recoiling cartridges will stop anything, use less powder (which is a factor these in these times of shortages) and burn through barrels more slowly.

I have 2 magnum rifles and almost always take my .284 Win out of the safe.

If I had to choose one of the two it would probably be the wsm. Get a shorter handier action and finding ammo can’t be any harder then the wm given how popular and common they are. Run good if you decide to shorten barrel and make a handier rifle too.

My WSM is pushing the 200gr ELD X at 2940fps. Not much in it really when considering the 2. At the end of the day you really need to consider action length, short or long? That will decide.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire

Both will get the job done, but .300WM comes into its own with 200+ grain projectiles.

I have a 26” .300WM that throws 208 ELD-Ms at 2980fps, which a .300WSM will not do. .300WSM is more efficient with shorter barrels and will be lighter and handier, but both need a brake or moderator.

That said, I don’t think either are necessary for NZ hunting. Get what you want, but the range of 6.5 and 7mm high BC projectiles and efficient, lower recoiling cartridges will stop anything, use less powder (which is a factor these in these times of shortages) and burn through barrels more slowly.

I have 2 magnum rifles and almost always take my .284 Win out of the safe.

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Custom chambers are where WSM and WM really shine.
https://youtu.be/HqdLHvXos4U
220 gr Berger doing 2950fps with 27” barrel, admittedly hitting start of pressure but when dropped back 2 grains, still hitting 2850fps.

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Originally Posted by 300wsm for life

My WSM is pushing the 200gr ELD X at 2940fps. Not much in it really when considering the 2. At the end of the day you really need to consider action length, short or long? That will decide.

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mines pushing same projectle @ 2800ish with mild load and 20 inch barrel. it could go harder with different powder but nothing has walked away so far so its good enough for me

Mines not loaded to max but I am using RL17.

First question “what is your main intended use?”
And 2nd questions ....
Hunting ? Bush or tops ? Or mix? Multi day missions ? Truck hunting ? Target species ? Reds? Tahr? Fallow ? What range are you expecting to shoot on animals?

If mostly using for hunting and you plan on lugging it around the hills on foot then go WSM. You can buy or build a light weight shorter bbl wsm that will cover most hunting situations out to sensible ranges ( 600 - 700 yds). However you need to bear in mind recoil and muzzle blast with any 300 magnum and your ability to shoot accurately in that scenario, and more so with light weight set ups.

The WM comes into its own with the heavy weight high BC pills now available but to get the best from these you need a 26in bbl and reload. The weight and length of the WM to me makes it pretty unattractive to hump around the hills, let alone bush bashing with it.

Have owned both but now only WSM. Recoil and muzzle blast on WSM is more tolerable, but for either you need a good can or brake. Brake better for taming recoil but ups the noise and blast. The recoil on WSM is shorter/sharper but still preferable to the WM in my experience. The muzzle blast on most WMs I’ve been close to when fired is “unpleasantness”
I run 180 Berger EH in my WSM with Hyb100V doing 3040 fps 24in bbl, that will cover everything out to 800 yds or more if you wanted.

Have you thought about the good ol 3006?

My .30/06 runs 168 grain BTHP at 2950 fps in a 26" barrel with AR2213SC.

Had both currently have an r93 win mag with carbon stock. 3000fps with 200eldx 24". No brake or suppressor but right on the manageable limit.... uncomfortable if you are not used to it

Dirty -06 pushing 180grn slippery projectile wont give up much ....and surely wont be much less on animals. with modern projectiles and powders the old girl which has always worked well,can do so even more now.

That's the reason I went to the 300. 308 on steroids. I've been shooting 300wsm for 16 yrs.

Had both.

Had a win mag custom rifle.

Too big and too long for my liking. Whoever ended up with it got a minter of a custom rifle.

Had a 300wsm. Not for very long as it just wasn't my thing. Ended up back where I started off initially and went to a 7mm round.

If you are considering something that shoots factory ammo which you do specify consider things like 7mm rem mag, 280 or of course 30-06

There's not a lot in it in terms of performance when comparing factory ammo. The WSM uses less powder and has a more efficient case design, sure - but it's also loaded to higher pressure and that's mostly what closes the gap against the 300WM (If you ever do start reloading, 300WM has plenty of untapped potential horsepower there - plus there's better brass available).

On paper, recoil energy is similar. Recoil of the WSM is meant to be a bit snappier as it uses faster powders in a shorter fatter column, at higher pressure - the WM, using slower powders, a taller case, and lower pressure, produces more of a heave. Both will still kick the shit out of you unbraked or unsuppressed and you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart. Rifle weight and how linear the recoil is, makes a larger difference to felt recoil.

Depending on the rifle model, there's little to no difference in action weight and length e.g. Tikka's are all the same. If the manufacturer produces different length actions, yeah there might a small saving. We're talking a few ounces and perhaps an inch though.

Funnily enough some of the reading about 300 H+H suggests more of the same with many writers and even one of our forum members @bunji, saying how relatively soft shooting they are.
Read something recently on about the long tapered neck creating a different burn impulse of the powder down 5he barrel not in the case.
That's the theory anyway but does sound logical.

I have a win mag, wishing I went with a Wsm so I could cut the barrel shorter

Get the wsm, they just look sexy:D stock up on whatever ammo it likes, save the brass, buy some dies and get a mate to reload if/when factory ammo becomes hard to get.

That's for all the responses guys. Much appreciated!

In answer to some of the questions raised here...

I have a 7mm-08 Montana for most hunting and that will be my main rifle for bush stalking, and general hunting - being Reds (bush and bush/openish country) and Fallow (if I can find the sneaky buggers in the bush!). It serves me fine truth be told, but I cut my teeth on a 308 Brno ZKK 601 and at the time of my Kimber purchase couldn't find a 308 Kimber so went with the 7mm-08 instead as that was the caliber in stock at the time. Can't exactly put a finger on why but on it but I prefer a 30cal.

My intended quarry for the Win Mag or WSM would be Red Stags in the roar, in the open past 300m. I know that it is doable with a 7mm-08 out to a certain distance, however I like the idea of having a bit more power on my side.

Do I NEED another rifle? Probably not. Do I WANT another rifle - simple answer is YES, Yes I do.

The other calibers suggested (7mm-Rem Mag, 280, 30-06 for example) would do well, however trying to source one of those in the Kimber Montana range (if I can even find them in NZ at the moment) may be problematic. Can't say I'm a big fan of the newer Kimber painted stocks or the Hunter model stock.

Now, full disclosure here, i didn't want to muddy the waters up front, but I actually own a 300WSM Kimber Montana (shortened by previous owner to 20 inches, fitted with a Hardy Magnum Suppressor and Talley rings). I thought I did well buying it as a package for $1700 in February for a Wapiti Trip so jumped on it. Here it is unscoped with my 7mm-08 for comparison (also a 20 inch barrel but with ATec Suppressor).

Attachment 169046

I've the taken the WSM to the range for a bit of a play and felt it quite comfortable to shoot.

My original question arose due to trying to find ammo for it. I've found the selection of ammo where I live to be a bit on the lean side and recently located a Kimber Montana in 300 Win Mag, but for $200 more than my WSM and without a suppressor. I was toying with the idea before getting too attached to the WSM that perhaps a Win Mag may be the way to go. The comments here have helped firm up my thought processes greatly though. I think I'll stick with the WSM for the foreseeable, just means I need to forward plan my ammo purchases and not leave it to the last minute as chances are ammo might be a bit scarce at times.

Perhaps one day I'll head down the rabbit hole of reloading for it, although after following @Tikka7mm08 and his marathon 280AI load development I'm not so sure....

Thanks again for all the comments/advice!

Do you want to try a couple of handloads? I can send you a couple of 150gr and 200gr to try, only if they chamber? Not hot loads pretty mild.

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Originally Posted by 300wsm for life

Do you want to try a couple of handloads? I can send you a couple of 150gr and 200gr to try, only if they chamber? Not hot loads pretty mild.

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Thanks for the offer, the rifle also came with a load developed from Rivers to Ranges. so I have something to work with if I head down that path.

Don't bother if you're not a reloader. But it is great to get into. Certainly Kimber MA 280AI one of the more challenging rifles but the Montana 308 wasn't too bad at all.

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Originally Posted by Kimber 7mm-08

Thanks for the offer, the rifle also came with a load developed from Rivers to Ranges. so I have something to work with if I head down that path.

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If it came with load development find someone to load for you would be the best answer, you pay the same per round as factory ammo and get a far superior product

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Originally Posted by Kimber 7mm-08

That's for all the responses guys. Much appreciated!

In answer to some of the questions raised here...

I have a 7mm-08 Montana for most hunting and that will be my main rifle for bush stalking, and general hunting - being Reds (bush and bush/openish country) and Fallow (if I can find the sneaky buggers in the bush!). It serves me fine truth be told, but I cut my teeth on a 308 Brno ZKK 601 and at the time of my Kimber purchase couldn't find a 308 Kimber so went with the 7mm-08 instead as that was the caliber in stock at the time. Can't exactly put a finger on why but on it but I prefer a 30cal.

My intended quarry for the Win Mag or WSM would be Red Stags in the roar, in the open past 300m. I know that it is doable with a 7mm-08 out to a certain distance, however I like the idea of having a bit more power on my side.

Do I NEED another rifle? Probably not. Do I WANT another rifle - simple answer is YES, Yes I do.

The other calibers suggested (7mm-Rem Mag, 280, 30-06 for example) would do well, however trying to source one of those in the Kimber Montana range (if I can even find them in NZ at the moment) may be problematic. Can't say I'm a big fan of the newer Kimber painted stocks or the Hunter model stock.

Now, full disclosure here, i didn't want to muddy the waters up front, but I actually own a 300WSM Kimber Montana (shortened by previous owner to 20 inches, fitted with a Hardy Magnum Suppressor and Talley rings). I thought I did well buying it as a package for $1700 in February for a Wapiti Trip so jumped on it. Here it is unscoped with my 7mm-08 for comparison (also a 20 inch barrel but with ATec Suppressor).

Attachment 169046

I've the taken the WSM to the range for a bit of a play and felt it quite comfortable to shoot.

My original question arose due to trying to find ammo for it. I've found the selection of ammo where I live to be a bit on the lean side and recently located a Kimber Montana in 300 Win Mag, but for $200 more than my WSM and without a suppressor. I was toying with the idea before getting too attached to the WSM that perhaps a Win Mag may be the way to go. The comments here have helped firm up my thought processes greatly though. I think I'll stick with the WSM for the foreseeable, just means I need to forward plan my ammo purchases and not leave it to the last minute as chances are ammo might be a bit scarce at times.

Perhaps one day I'll head down the rabbit hole of reloading for it, although after following @Tikka7mm08 and his marathon 280AI load development I'm not so sure....

Thanks again for all the comments/advice!

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Greetings Kimber 7mm-08,
Handloading is as difficult or as simple as you make it. I've been involved in loading both the .300 Win Mag and the 7mm-08 and have found both easy to load for. The .300 WSM should be no different. I am also a minimalist when it comes to load development having long since abandoned endless series of small increments of powder charge in favour of concentrating on the target velocity area. Handloading does get over the problem of sporadic shortages.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

My .30/06 runs 168 grain BTHP at 2950 fps in a 26" barrel with AR2213SC.

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@gundoc you run lapua scenars?

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

@gundoc you run lapua scenars?

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I was running 167 grain Scenars but have switched to Hornady BT Match, being as good in performance but cheaper and easier to obtain.