So I’m thinking of investing in a 30 calibre
I’m leaning towards a 308, but curious if a 30/06 would be any better.
It’s going to be a ‘second rifle’ well third actually.
Probably chop the barrel to 18” and run a suppressor
Your thoughts ?
Printable View
So I’m thinking of investing in a 30 calibre
I’m leaning towards a 308, but curious if a 30/06 would be any better.
It’s going to be a ‘second rifle’ well third actually.
Probably chop the barrel to 18” and run a suppressor
Your thoughts ?
308 with that barrel length . 22 jnches and linger 30/06 all day. Yes it hits harder. Very capable round and was the Long range king before all the magnums came in the scene.
Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
308 would be easier to find factory ammo, reloads would they be the same powder for both?
What are the other 2 rifles ?
Would help to understand what gaps you are trying to fill...
223 and 243, with a 44/40 just to keep things interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by ebf
To be fair, it’s probably more a want than a need, but hey I can find space in the gun safe
If you are reloading, I'd go 30-06Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogfeatures
Would give you a nice heavy hitter, compared to the 243. Very versatile caliber that shoots a massive range of projectile weights comfortably.
I'd also leave the barrel long to gain maximum potential.
You've covered:
varmint - 223
general hunting - 243
bush basher : 44/40
so the one side you are missing is longer range hunting rifle with good knockdown power.
Here's you answer right here, but if your going to shoot heavy for caliber bullets (180Gr and heaver) the 3006 will have a slight edge over the 308 even with a short barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
With normal barrel lengths and 150 grain bullets there is little difference between the two cartridges out to 350 metres, beyond that the .30/06 is a bit flatter, and can be handloaded to about 3000 fps with 150 grainers. If you are going with the short barrel then stick with the .308. The .30/06 is better with heavier bullets but they are really not needed in NZ unless you are looking at specialised long range work, in which case your shorter barrel would not produce the required velocities anyway. I use .30/06 150 grain factory loads for hunting, and for long range targets in my 26"custom LR rifle I run 168 grain boat-tail match handloads at 2950 fps.
People often overlook how well the longer tapered calibres like the 270,280, 7x 57 and 30-06 cycle through the action compared to stubbier ones.
let me just say right from the start having extra guns you want but dont need isnt a bad thing . . i could get rid of 2/3rds of my rifles and it would make very little to no difference to my shooting at all . . i just wouldnt enjoy it as much.
my advice . . buy something your going to enjoy over time . . and hopefully i wont see you trying to sell a short barrelled .30/06 in the near future.
good luck . . R
Greetings Frogfeatures,
Looking at the rifles that you already have I wonder if you have considered the intermediate calibres between the .243 and 30 cal. The 30 calibres are great (I have several) but to drive the high BC projectiles at decent velocity. This takes a shit load of powder and produces recoil in equal measure. I have a soft spot for the 6.5 calibre rifles although right at the moment getting projectiles is a major problem. At the end of the day it will be your rifle and your choice. There really no bad choices.
Regards Grandpamac.
When all is said and done...my choice between them would come down to which is the better deal on the day....Do you like the green one or the blue one? They are both very similar in performance so if you are looking at a 308 and a 30/06 which is in better condition , price value for money...? The animal wont know the difference between them. For the most part, to be brutal about it, the two of them are only slightly ahead of a 243... There is not much in NZ that 30cal can take that a 243 cannot....And the 6.5 cals (while a favourite of mine) are right in there too, I meant the 243 is really just a 6mm08 anyway...
perhaps looking to something slightly bigger again such as a 300winmag etc?.
Obviously you have a gap and a desire to fill it with something....I think the bigger decision will be less about calibre and more about the rifle details itself ....Find one you like and don't limit yourself to any particular calibre...and enjoy the shopping
I'll throw the a.i spanner in the works too. 30/06 responds to this upgrade very well and will perform almost like a 300 win mag with a lot less powder.
Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
Have a look at the energy numbers you will find there is a world of difference between a 243 and 30/06 . The 243 is a lot closer to the 223 in performance, yes still both capable rounds but shouldn't be compared to the ought six. I can tell you this from real world experience as well as knowing the numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
If you want short bbl bush pig, then 308. If you want to reach out longer range then 3006 and don't chop the bbl.
find an older BSA or similar .30/06 in 2nd hand racks for $4-5-600 and try it as it is for a while...might need a rebed...might need a recrown,so may as well thread at same time LEAVING IT LONG..... agree with erniec,the longer cartridges just feed better/smoother.
there is worlds of difference between .243 and the dirty 06..... both kill well,but one will do it from up the arsehole and still reach vitals if needed...eg stag of lifetime about to dissapear with only up the jacksee shot on the cards.
I've just set up a 16" .308 for bushing hunting. I dont bush hunt, but it'll be fun haha.
@Cartman I agree there is a difference and reasonably significant. But the 243 is capable in most game situations that will arise in NZ. Will a 308 or 30/06 be better? Probably. But will they be a big enough improvement to warrant either? Maybe. The 243 is a good calibre and can do most of what the 30cals mentioned can. It is not until they all get out past 300m that the differences really favour the 30 cal options. And even then POI is pretty similar, but energy carried is better on the 30s...And if this was the reason that would cause him to consider getting a 30cal then the 300 win mag etc would be the next step up over the two mentioned. I was simply suggesting that perhaps if he wants to fill a "gap" then a larger cal again might be worth considering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
Attachment 187822
If is solely down to the option of 308 or 30/06 and if it was me I would be getting one. Not because I want to do more than I can with a 243, but because I want one full stop. Whether it would be a 308 or a 30/06 would come down to the best deal on the day as those two are close enough in most situations that it will not matter.
Put it another way- Say I have 4 kids (not necessarily mine...) that I have to take to sport once a week. I can get all 4 and their gear in my Nissan Micra that I already own and manage. Its tight and not the ideal solution but its what is at hand. DO I buy a larger car like a Maxima etc just for that task..probably not. But if I need or want a second car do I get a larger one that can do that if it also does what I want...Possibly, or do I go for an SUV (magnum comparison) that is bigger still and can do even more?
If your looking at a comparison with another hunting cartridge in this case the 308.
Just remember that among the popular medium-caliber hunting cartridges, the 30-06 is, was, and always shall be that against which all others are judged.
For not much outlay You could grab one of those Husky's of Grahams as they always shoot well and do what you will with it.
This one will probably be up for sale soon
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-3006-a-78905/
Both capable, 308 for short barrel, 06 longer barrel. If i could only have one of either it would be the 30 06 , i think it's a bit more versatile especially when the heavy bullets are needed.
I have used both and currently have a 3006, the 06 was my go to rifle for 10-15 years and I shot quite a number of animals with it. The 308 to me is about ideal as a bush rifle and would suit the short barrel, once again a very capable round better suited to the 150 165 gr bullets.
Maybe another option would be a 19-20 inch barreled 284 Win, has a good range of projectiles to choose from lighter bullets for smaller game , heavier ones for longer range and targets.
You'll need your thinking cap on for this one but the choice is yours.
Chopping the 308 to 16" seems a waste when you have a 243 and the 44/40.
The 243 with a 22" barrel will do everything the 308 short barrel will do and the 44/40 will do the short range bush bunting that the 308 short barrel is aimed at.
Out to 400mtr a 243 will do most NZ hunting, 500 mtr if you have fast twist barrel.
So of the 2 you asked about the 30/06 with a 22-24" barrel
or
are you looking for a long range hunter 7mm rem mag or a large game long range hitter 300 win mag.
or go for a reloading caliber, 35 Whelen, or 338/06 and find some wild cattle to target.
Z
@Frogfeatures Here this info might help, l have a mates Brother In Law who hunts with us occasionally wanting to buy my Mod7 308 but having first dibbs on a Tikka in 30-06 & was asking a lot of InterWebs inspired questions & plain " wrong facts" from the couch sitting ExSpurts ,he had been listening to ,so to save space & allow for the slow internet & it dropping out at the bach, l have just posted my answers to some of the questions . @Frogfeatures you will probably know a lot of this already, but the first hand experience with favored loads in the field ,l have had may help . Good Luck with what ever you choose :thumbsup:
First off the case capacity in grains of water is 68gn for the 30-06 & 56gn for the .308, so if handloading & wanting to use heavier bullets the 30-06 is going to have the clear advantage ,it is a load of BS that the 30-06 does not shoot lower weight hunting bullets.
I have carried & used a Remington Mountain Rifle LSS in 06 (so 22"barrel')around the world for over 2 Decades while Guiding as my "Back Up" rifle & have owned 2,but also one of my favorite rifles is a Mohawk in 308 with the 18" barrel , l have owned for 40yrs this year as l brought it for myself for my 21st Birthday & between our family we have owned 4 08's over the years & still use a Rem mod7 308 suppressed with a 16" barrel ,although l will probably sell that as l was just bequeathed a nice early Custom Rem MR in 280AI & l do not believe in Safe Queens .
Even with popular Hunting loads using the 150gn bullet ,l have done side by side comparisons using identical Rem 700's & with my handloads, l could get the 308 to push them at just over 2900fps with first signs of primer flattening ,while the 30-06 could easily reach just over 3100fps,the usual gap is 100 to 200fp plus ,although with a bit of playing around you can get it at the lower end, (While guiding in Africa ,PNG & Top End of Oz l tested all loads for my various rifles to allow for the extreme heat they would be used in every day).
My all round Kiwi hunting loads for the 30-06 are, the Nosler 125gn Ballistic Tips doing just under 3300fps & Hornady 130gn Spire Points for Goats, Pigs , Chammy & Snack Pack Fallow & Reds , the 150gn Barnes TSX & Woodleigh's doing just under 3000fps,for the bigger stuff at closer ranges, Tahr ,Chammy on the tops etc . For longer ranges or all round trophy hunting, in varying conditions where you are faced with taking shots at various difficult angles, l have taken a lot of Kiwi game using the 167gn Lapua Scenar ,168gn Ballistic Silvertip & the 165gn Woodleigh at just over 2800 fps , with the MRLSS shooting 3 shots into 14mm to 20mm with them ,all very mild loads in my rifle but of course work up loads to suit what works best in your own rifle . I have other rifles built specifically for Long Range shooting so stick to around 500 yard max for my rifles like the 06 so the 160's do everything l need , although l do like the 180gn Nosler Partition doing just under 2900fps when Roaring in Stags in the thick stuff.
Once you get above 150gn the gap gets even bigger, with something like the 180 grainers again compared SXS ,you are hard pushed to get the 308 to push them without pressure signs at much above 2650fps fps, while the 06 is happily pushing them at he 180gn Nosler Partition in the .30-06 gets 2900fps and velocity, energy loss and drop at ranges out to 400yd. are way less than what the .308 can do. For years l used the 180gn Nosler Partition doing just under 2900fps as my all rounder load when in areas with stuff that bites back,l always like the K.I.S.S systems in all things & it as a Point & Shoot load ,allowing shoulder hold out to 300yds plus ,l just Sighted-in 3in. high at 100yd it is then 4in. high at 200 & down 2in. at 300.
I chose to use the 06 based on its proven ability to take any game that walks the face of the earth even with "mild" loads as l reloaded for it allowing for extreme heat due to it spending a lot of time sitting in the Dash Racks in open jeeps in blazing heat & easy ability to load bullets to take , from in my own experience, Rabbits To Buffalo ,using loads from the Speer 100gn Plinker at Rimfire velocities with Trail Boss or the 06 "Varmint " loads we used on 100's of Rabbits ,Foxes , Dingo's & Wallabies using a variety of bullets but my MR loved the Lapua 100gn bullet pushed along with a mild load at around 3400fps & then the same rifle l used to take a lot of Jesus Taxi's ,Scrubbers & Buff using the 180gn Woodleigh , Barnes TSX or even the Old School Nosler Partitions ,loping along from 2800fps to just under 2900 fps & pressures were that low l would regularly get a dozen reloads (something important living in remote areas or Ammo component Apocalypse's )using using good slow powders like RE-22 and Re-25.
Taking into account that versatility, the fact the 06 is not a hard kicker, but yet is easily capable of all that & one of the few cartridges that fit that criteria & not hard to get accurate loads for various bullet weights , or hard on barrels , or hard on the nut behind the Butt & all while being able to be easily hand loaded to good hunting velocity levels .
Having said that the 06 was a Yank, Ambo Chasing, Lawyers Wet Dream, as for a few bucks for decades , Bubba was getting his hands on them ,so the factory ammo (unless you pay top $) is largely some of the most under loaded going . So for me if it is going to only be a Bush Pig using bullets up to 150gn bullet ,the 308 will do fine anything above is where the 30/06 comes into its own ,but l would go 20' min so you can use the Long Range advantage it offers ,it all really depends on what you want it actually for . :thumbsup:
Horses for courses for different people - out to 350 or so, there is NOTHING you can kill with a 308 I can't with my .243 and the .243 is more decisive - lost count the number of deer and Tahr I've killed with .243, just sold my shorty .308 cause it didn't cut the mustard vs my .243 for quick killing....... Went for a walk today and I had choices reaching into my gun cabinet, guess which rifle my hand came out with.....on average, if normal barrel lengths apply 3006 is .308 with an extra 100fps or so and more recoil. That's my 2cents. Now off to run a boresnake through my 6mm08 work horse!Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
True but the 308 cycles well enough. The 308’s parent was designed for semi/full auto battlefield applications, reliable feeding was one of the prerequisitesQuote:
Originally Posted by erniec
375H&H is supposed to be the gold standard for ultra smooth cycling
All this is true. But finding the right bullet helps alot woth quick kills too. I like ssts they work great in 243 but I'm not a fan of the 150s in 308 . I had a blr in 243 for years I shot hundreds of animals with it its a favorite caliber of mine. I liked the 95 ssts and 90 grain targex 80 grain corelocts.Quote:
Originally Posted by 257weatherby
Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
Sounds like you know enough really and if you wade through this stuff and other you’ll be happy enough with either.
The beauty thing in today’s world is we can play with whatever projectiles we want and make them work.
A 308 using 130’s is as effective as a 30-06 using a slick 180 or a stubby partition. Ask any deer shot with one.
The decision is what one will you want to own and use. There is no which one that is better than the other.
It’s like saying a 300win mag is far superior to the 7rm or a 7x64 to a 7mm08. Some are faster (or could be), some can be loaded with more powder (capacity), some factory loads are as anaemic as anything and some that are hand-loaded just really shine in comparison.
I like the 30-06 that’s why I own one, and a 308 as well.
But, I like a dirty little 6.5 Creedmoor any day of the week but don’t tell the 30-06 I said that out loud.
I'm looking at the same problem, but for use in W.A Camels and scrub bulls I'm thinking 3006 just to boot out the 180,s with a bit of Zing.
Nor-west you could also consider a 9.3x62 especially for bulls
The best calibre/chambering is one which has a cheap and plentiful supply of ammunition.
See a lot of guys building wildcat superguns but they rarely get fired, think Schwerer Gustav, looks great on paper, tell your mates about how awesome it is, but it's value is negligible.
That being said, both the .308 and .30-06 are abundant, even in the 'dry times' we have now. If ammo/projectile scarcity was not an issue, then a 7mm08 or 280 would be a better angle.
A 150 grain 7mm bullet is going to outclass a 150 grain 30 cal by a decent amount (Sierra Gameking G1 BC of .46 for the 7mm, .38 for the 30cal).
Does not make sense to use a bigger, slower, less slippery bullet at long distances.
That being said, hard to go wrong with a .308 Howa!
@nor-west While l was guiding in the Top End of Oz we shot 100's of Camels ,we use to do 2 trips each year doing Camel/Jesus Taxi culls on the WA/NT border, on adjoining Cattle Stations with 870'000 acres of country they allowed us to hunt on while the cattle were spelled on the "Homestead Paddocks" where the water troughs were more plentiful .
We had a client who was a well known Surgeon who would do six hunts/fishing trips a year with us & he would shout us the trips ,flying us down in his own Cessna 310, that he used to fly around the NT to clinics. We would just have to supply all grog for the trip & he would like some expensive we drops in the Red & Whiskey line ,he was the one who got me onto Tasmanian Whiskey which l had never even heard of until then.
The Cattle Stations would allow us to have the run on,(Stations covered 1.2Million Acres plus),while the Cattle numbers were down after the majority shipped off for live export, they would keep them on ground close to the Station Homesteads (so you are looking at over 200'000acre homestead paddocks :wtfsmilie: ) with just a Skeleton crew of Ringers during the summer months ,Sept/March when temps were hitting high 40's on the reg & Camels would walk through fences to get to water & then smash the water troughs & foul the Turkey Dams.At Aboriginal out stations in the area the Camels would attack the locals & rip any of the outside taps that were dripping off the walls of the buildings & kick the Dongers tin walls in trying to reach inside where they could smell water .
I saw them shot with a lot of calibers & personally used from 270 WSM,.308, .30-06,300WM,300 Wby Mag,325 WSM ,338mag,9.3x62,375 & my .458 Lott .
Apart from my Lott , the best medicine for them l used was the 325 WSM a seriously underrated Deer rifle IMO,I l used the 185gn Core-Lokt & 200gn Speer Hot Core bullet pushed along at just over 2900fps & the 200gn Barnes X doing just over 2800fps, it was a good consistent performer on these huge tanks of blood ,which see's them doing Zombie walks when heart shot with streams of blood on thru shots ,pumping out 3ft either side of them & a easy 4 to 8ft if only 1 hole poked in them ,they then usually slowly sink to the ground in their weird fashion & curl their necks up & around their bodies & make a final death groan .
With my 30-06 l found the tuff Nosler 168gn E-Tip pushed along at 2800fps was very good on them out to 200 & then l would use the 180's as listed above.I found the 30-06 a good compromise round for camels as with the high volume of shooting (we shot 428 between six of us ,in one day when they were in plague numbers in 1998) as it had enough grunt to anchor them & yet not Kick the living crap out of you with the high volume shooting day after day .
Make sure you take a big Chilly Bin & grab some back straps on your final days as the meat is really good when aged properly (can do at home in the fridge in Vak Paks ) ,particularly in Old School stews etc,the Ribs & neck chops are great cooked over a open fire back at camp .I recommend you all carry the big model Camel Back that also has a pack for gear incorporated (no pun intended ),l run mine in hot country all the time with a bladder set up for adding Staminade to keep the essential minerals and electrolytes lost through perspiration . I used the same system when we rode our Motorbikes across the Simpson Desert & on another trip to the Tip of Cape York, try to make sure you drink a Liter a hour while doing heavy excursion in the heat,with the heat in the Air ,Sun & burning heat off the ground even glassing takes it out of you .A bit of good old school heavy canvas is handing for glassing away from the vehicle (if they have been shot recently ,they run for miles from motor noise) & even laying prone to shoot as the ground is that hot it burns to touch in summer,(the best time to hunt them) .
Also a have good radio with you at all times ,not only handy setting up ambushes of large Mobs with other hunters ,but some of the scrubby desert mulga/spinifex country is a mass of ancient twisted scrub roots & sharp rocks & it only takes a twisted ankle to see you sitting at the base of a Sand Dune in 40plus heat waiting for the others to find you, for the same reason take a couple of extra spares for the truck, punctures were common ,the station vehicles we used all had their own tyre irons & repair kits in the trays .
Also try the weird experience of going back to a Camel carcass you shot a couple of days before & dropping a match on it & seeing it burn for hours from the oil they hold :wtfsmilie:
The 30-06 will do the job fine ,l found with any good tuff 160 gn's bust them right behind the front shoulder & aiming for the off side ,if you clip a rib (which are huge)that will shred the heart /lungs with bone shrapnel & keep the Zombie walk to a min, with 180's hit them right on the point of the shoulder ,again aiming for off side & it has the same result ,but with both shoulders out of action ,keeping Zombie walk to a few feet .
If you have any questions or need any help just hit us up :thumbsup:
