First Rifle Choice for the Novice Hunter. Some more Notes From an Old Fudd

Greetings all,
With the vast array of choice for a new rifle these days I started thinking about how a new hunter would choose a rifle. They will be surrounded with opinions good, bad and indifferent from the web and forums such as this. Quite bewildering. Perhaps there are some questions that need to be answered.

1. Will it do the job it is intended for?
2. Is the ammo both available and not too expensive to allow plenty of shooting to build skills for the hunting intended?

To me if the rifle ticks both those boxes then it will be ideal.

Any thoughts?
GPM.

It would be a .22, 223 or 308 then.

to me its an easy awnser they need two a .22 for rabbits possums and target practice and then deer - .223 the minimum I would go .308 just more knock down - what make and model well - its what they like - I dont see any one better or worse from new stuff -they all shoot well - whats a good deal

Greetings,
So that is three votes from the seniors (counting mine) for much the same thing but what do the younger generations think?

I'm am older and I doubt if I would ever consent to owning a 6.5 Creedmore, however for a young guy starting out as an addition to their .22 I think it is a worthwhile option to consider.

Chambered in plenty of rifles. Ammo is easy to find and it is softer shooting than the 308 with similar range.

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Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

I'm am older and I doubt if I would ever consent to owning a 6.5 Creedmore, however for a young guy starting out as an addition to their .22 I think it is a worthwhile option to consider.

Chambered in plenty of rifles. Ammo is easy to find and it is softer shooting than the 308 with similar range.

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That is one problem with the .308. I shot one for years with a hard plastic butt pad and full power loads. Recently I was testing one which I found uncomfortable without a suppressor. Getting old I suppose.
GPM.

I've been thinking on this a lot lately, and kinda come to the conclusion that firstly you need a 22, cos you need trigger time, and lots of it. 22 ammo is the cheapest available and you can shoot rabbits and possums and spend a heap of time learning all the basic's at minimal cost. Then the 223 would be a pretty popular choice, again cos ammo is freely available and not that expensive if you wanta go shoot some roo's or ring some gongs. May also take a deer or pig - if the user has developed enough skill and knowledge to use it humanely. Same can be said for the 308, and it has a bit more authority for all the big game. But I know of a number of younger guys and gals that find the recoil from the 308 is a little bit more than they expected or are use to. And thats whre I'm with 7mm tragic - the 6.5 is an excellent all round calibre and somewhat more tolerable on the shoulder for some. Ammo is freely available.

I didn't even think of #2, but I did #1 & 3

Very interesting thoughts all, the voice of reason so to speak . . . . . But remember that a rifle also represents the "hearts" thoughts as well, "how I see myself hunting" and "is this me". Us old farts are largely past that sort of thing (until we get a back powder craze or something) but remembering what influenced ya when you wore a younger man's clothes is key to helping the young guys I think!

I support the opinion that recoil, both actual and perceived, should be right up there in the considerations for a first centrefire.

I think a .22 is the best way to learn different shooting positions in the field
Nice and cheap and like a tell a lot of guy just get out and shoot shit.
The next depends on what you are hunting and how many funds you have, if fallow and goats then a .223 if reds come into it and you can't afford 3 rifles then my vote is for a .22 and a 6.5 creed plenty of factory ammo nice on the shoulder and plenty of knock down power

Sent from my CPH2531 using Tapatalk

Nzhunter did awesome article cartridges for under 16s I THINK it was called .about 12 years ago it's well worth finding it as it really chewed it over. Basically it came down to a suppressor is very much good. 243 still one of the top choices. If ranges are under 150 the 7.62x39mm a sound choice and if JNR has cool head and animals are calm the 223 is very versatile.....note that was 55 grn Hornady ammunition as the heavies were not really a big thing. We went the x39mm route and it was good BUT entirely my fault we lost a big stag when range underestimated,it did huge stumble after shot so I didn't fire as well. Two hours tracking across boundary in rain it was lost. But under 150 everything dropped well enough.

A suppressed 308 with decent reloads in 125-130grn is a pleasure to shoot with,recoil is negligible.

I reckon a good way to go would be to not worry about the 22 and get a 223 and use that for everything from rabbits to target practice, then goats and deer. just shoot the shit out of it. If you buy a 223 in something like a Tikka or howa then if you decide to get a bigger calibre get the exact same gun in a different caliber and you'll already be familiar with it.

Mid 30s (unsure if this classes as young).
22 for sure, that should be a stapple for everyone.

Unpopular opinion, Centerfire depends on your location and use.

In the North Island, I never found many situations where the 6.5 Grendel couldnt get it done.

Yes, ideally ammo could be more available, but if it was demanded more, we would get more.

South Island would possible call for something with a little more legs, maybe a Creedmoor.

Its easy enough to say 308, but if the rifle dont fit and you havnt spent plenty of time behind a rifle, you run the risk of becoming recoil shy and developing a flinch.

A new hunter will read this thread and pick a suppressed Tikka T3 in 308

He will then live a happy and fulfilled life, the end.

my daughters (teenager at the time) first shots at the range was with a 8x57 loved it never flinched and was a better shot than me.....screwed her nose up at the 22 after that.
my first centerfire was a 30/30 trapper (had less recoil than the marlin i had in recent years , put it down to the straight stock absorbing energy better , my opinion only)then moved to the 8x57 i inherited (otherwise i would probably never have bought one) in the years between then and now i have had a 6,5x55 loved it but found ailmost all the deer i saw were within 50m . a 7.62x39 enjoyed it but might as well be using a 30/30 . and only just recently after 44years i bought my first 308........maybe im a slow learner.......
and yes i still have the 8x57 .......

Just recently bought a 22" .308 with the suppressor it has sygnificantly less recoil than the 18" one it's replaced and is hardly anymore than my 20" 22-250. The .308 is still one of the cheapest to feed out there.

Greetings all,
Some useful stuff here. To be honest the 7.62x39 and it's descendent the 6.5 Grendel had not crossed my mind but either would be great and light recoil especially when suppressed. The 7.62 should have some inexpensive ammo available. A .22 RF for cheap practise is hard to go past as well.
The point that younger people are different to us when we were young is also well made so a .22RF together with something more exotic may fill the need for them.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

A new hunter will read this thread and pick a suppressed Tikka T3 in 308

He will then live a happy and fulfilled life, the end.

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Yes, the suppressor makes a 308 quite tolerable.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
So that is three votes from the seniors (counting mine) for much the same thing but what do the younger generations think?

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6.5x55 :P

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Originally Posted by blip

6.5x55 :P

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Another all time favourite of mine but a better calibre for a handloader rather than a novice. The US ammo used to be weak shite and the continental expensive.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by Happy Jack

Just recently bought a 22" .308 with the suppressor it has sygnificantly less recoil than the 18" one it's replaced and is hardly anymore than my 20" 22-250. The .308 is still one of the cheapest to feed out there.

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My 18 inch b14 308 suppressed shooting factory 150's recoils more than my 270 22 inch with suppressor, also has a lam stock but it's a noticeably less.

243 for my young fella shooting 95 sst. Works. He's 12.

To cover kiwi conditions - .22, 223, and 308 (or similar), and 12 guage.

There are of course other centrefire calibers just as effective as 308, but advantage with 308 is you always have a ready range of ammos available at reasonable prices.

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Originally Posted by mudgripz

To cover kiwi conditions - .22, 223, and 308 (or similar), and 12 guage.

There are of course other centrefire calibers just as effective as 308, but advantage with 308 is you always have a ready range of ammos available at reasonable prices.

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and thats it in a nutshell done and dusted

A .22lr and a 6.5 CM ( .243 would be my second choice)

I’d much prefer to own and use a Rifle that I love shooting but at times struggle to buy ammo for , than a Rifle I hate to shoot but can afford to feed .
If you love shooting the thing because you aren’t scared of it , you will achieve good results and I've yet to encounter a 6.5CM that doesn’t shoot well with Factory ammo .
You will always find a way to get more ammo …….. if you enjoy shooting it .

If it can't be dealt with by a 10/22, mossberg 500 or a marlin 336 then it's further away than I'm willing to carry it!

708 is the new 308, much nicer to shoot for a newbie and ammo is readily available again....

Insert anti 708 hate ------>HERE<------ :D

Way back in the day it would of been an old single shot 22 a 12g and a 303

As someone who had bad recoil flinch when I first started some moons ago on centrefires I'll add to that aspect of the question. That being put aside a .22 and a .223 are no brainers, for shotguns do not over look the humble 20Ga as it kills just as well as the 12ga.

However for centrefire rifles the one that feels the best in the hand is a must, doesn't matter what I or anyone thinks that's the best one for said shooter as most factory rifles are capable of shooting more accurately than the nut behind the butt can.

Calibres for a younger shooter and this is obviously depending on where you are located etc:243, 6 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 25-06, 6.5x55,260,6.5 creed, 7mm08, 308 albeit with more recoil.

Imo.... 22lr for plinking and a 243 for everything else.
Can upgrade to different cals after picking up more skills

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Originally Posted by Happy Jack

Just recently bought a 22" .308 with the suppressor it has sygnificantly less recoil than the 18" one it's replaced and is hardly anymore than my 20" 22-250. The .308 is still one of the cheapest to feed out there.

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That would be my inclination. First point is that a new shooter needs to spend time getting used to the rifle to become properly proficient with it.

The 22LR should be the go to for a start- it is the cheapest to feed and a great way to develop good shooting habits and technique. No recoil so wont promote a flinch.

As for centrefire calibres, there is a few things to consider that may or may not be compatible with each other so compromise may be needed..


For recoil averse there are 243, 6.5 (especially the x55) 7.62x39 and 30/30 cals, and lets not forget the humble 303.....These all are a bit lighter on the power and recoil so are good on that front- Of these I would pick the 6.5x55 or 303 almost every time. Most new shooters will not be accurate enough yet to take 200-300 or longer shots competently / confidently so the reduced power of the 30/30 or x39 cals will still be more than adequate.

The other main consideration is ammo cost- if it is too expensive to shoot frequently, then it will start to sit and not be practised with. A decent supply of ammo at reasonable prices helps - and this is where 308 and 223 really come into the picture. And the 7.62x39. These are all mil surp calibres and the cheapest ammo will likely be mil surp etc as well- so bear in mind good hunting ammo will still be at a similar price to other calibres though may be slightly cheaper due to popularity. For a new shooter hunting larger animals I would not recommend the 223. It is capable but it needs more precise placement and a badly wounded animal suffering is enough to put a real damper on a new shooters enthusiasim. The larger calibres a re little more forgiving of errors in shot placement...

The first thing I usually suggest to someone asking this question is to pop into the nearest 3 or 4 shops that sell ammo and see what calibres have the most choice on the shelf (popularity)

Seocndly I suggest starting with a 2nd hand gun. The calibre choice is usually more along the lines of it is the best value firearm you can find will determine what calibre you get- it will be whatever that rifle is chambered in.....

And suppressors really help with new shooters.

agree with a lot you say Timmalatlon but cant agree with 30.30 and 7.62x39 they dont have any range -- squaw guns - give the new hunter a chance - 308 suppressed recoil as a lot have said should be quite okay and they have enough to take a red out to 300 easily and with some knowledge and target practice 400 - leave the 6.5 mm 243 to the guys with knowledge of its capability's- I would after over 50 years of hunting not recommend one and yes I have used them - - a .22 a 223 or .222 for meat hunts a .308 for the roar and a 12 gauge shot gun done deal - later a 7mm rem mag for thar

People have forgotten to spec in good quality hearing protection- i.e ear muffs with noise cancelling

Aside from proper technique developed through practise and instruction, this is a major part of avoiding bad habits (flinch) when shooting centre fire rifles.

The ear buds/plugs don't work as the pressure wave still hits the soft tissue around your ears.

Ain't it a funny thing,the humble 177 slug gun/air rifle doesn't even get a mention anymore? Yet it teaches how to aim,how to hold,muscle memory and with a small amount of thinking can be used SAFELY in most town sections. Trying to get novice shooter to line up rifle when they don't have those basics,takes a fair bit of patience.I need to find really cheap slug gun for mate to use.funny I sold off the one I had only a few months ago lol

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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

308 suppressed recoil as a lot have said should be quite okay and they have enough to take a red out to 300 easily and with some knowledge and target practice 400 - leave the 6.5 mm 243 to the guys with knowledge of its capability's- I would after over 50 years of hunting not recommend one

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Have a mate whose old man was a culler ,he used a 243 when mate got his licence he told him get a 308 your not good enough to use anything else and you need what you hit to stay down.....,

yes you are right Mickey Duck cheap target practice just a pity cant be used in suburbs despite a good set up but yes a definite plus to teach new shooters

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Originally Posted by scotty

Have a mate whose old man was a culler ,he used a 243 when mate got his licence he told him get a 308 your not good enough to use anything else and you need what you hit to stay down.....,

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those old boys knew what they were talking about - The NZFS for over 50 years supplied .222 .308 and 270 and nothing else (well not quite right some still had supplies of .303 ) -because they had been proven - yes some cullers used .243 but had to supply their own ammo or swap supplied rounds for it

new hunter
1st keep it simple. There is no need to go out and spend big money on a 1st rifle a Howa Ruger or savage all good options for a good yet cheap rifle

2nd caliber assuming use is deer and goats I wouldn't go too small it seems very tempting to go for 223 however this is fine for someone with experience, but new hunters tend to get a bit over excited, and marksmanship can take a bit of a dive also they are less prepared to pass up an opportunity if the perfect shot isn't presented and so sometimes will take a less than ideal shot so I suggest something with a little more grunt but keep in the short action so min 243win max 308 with the exception of 6.5x55 which is long action but more like a short action ) always get a suppressed package regardless is caliber chosen

which brings me to 3rd for fuck's sake don't buy a big cannon as a 1st rifle all it will do is teach you a bunch of bad habits

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Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

new hunter
1st keep it simple. There is no need to go out and spend big money on a 1st rifle a Howa Ruger or savage all good options for a good yet cheap rifle

2nd caliber assuming use is deer and goats I wouldn't go too small it seems very tempting to go for 223 however this is fine for someone with experience, but new hunters tend to get a bit over excited, and marksmanship can take a bit of a dive also they are less prepared to pass up an opportunity if the perfect shot isn't presented and so sometimes will take a less than ideal shot so I suggest something with a little more grunt but keep in the short action so min 243win max 308 with the exception of 6.5x55 which is long action but more like a short action ) always get a suppressed package regardless is caliber chosen

which brings me to 3rd for fuck's sake don't buy a big cannon as a 1st rifle all it will do is teach you a bunch of bad habits

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yes Savage good writeups on accuracy not pretty but pretty effective - big calibre yes dead right get some experience first - but a whole world of hunting out there - bad habits yes I watched a new hunter shoot a heavy caliber one day and he flinched so badly he actually turned his head and shut his eyes when he pulled the trigger