I need help! 270 barrel chop, cant make a decision

Hi guys,
Ok so I've inherited my grandfathers Winchester model 70 lightweight in 270.. so far with the advice from some good buggers on the forum pillar bedded the rifle, free floated the barrel, sanded stock down and re oiled, fitted a limbsaver.
The rifle will be Cerakoted midnight blue at the end and a new scope fitted. Now my predicament is I wasn't originally going to thread or suppress the rifle BUT it is 2023 and i enjoy my hearing, I also hunt with a dog and friends, and can hunt/shoot in some reasonably built up areas so i feel that maybe i should suppress or at least thread it before cerakote..
DPT will do me a custom thread cap to fit the barrel contour as best as possible to make the cap less visible, I've requested this to try and keep the rifle somewhat authentic as my grandad thinks suppressors are for pussy's and why would you want a dildo on the end of your rifle haha but he is deaf and probably has a wicked flinch id imagine!
So if i cut and thread what length and why!? I hunt mainly the kaimai's and love a short barrel, and handloading so can work with a shorter barrel, but for the guys who have done it let me know your opinions, if it was a rifle with no meaning to me I would chop it to 16-18'' and into it but I am trying to keep things abit original at the same time, my heart is saying leave the damn thing alone at 22'' and use it like my grandad did, but my mind is saying suppress or at least thread as it will hopefully one day become my grandsons..
Maybe 20'' is a happy medium?
So ill be dropping the rifle off on saturday morning for the final outcome so have a couple of days to make a decision, Im open to anybody and everybodys opinions on what to do to help sway my decision if you can be bothered leaving a comment id appreciate it. Sorry for the life story just at work bored and this has been keeping me awake at night!
Photos have been taken during the process and ill put a post up on projects and home builds when im all done for you guys to have a gander at
Cheers Troy

Probably the most versatile 270 I've had (and I've had one or two) would have been 19" T3, it was nice to point and carry with dpt on it and could still poke 150 LRABs out at 2850 which puts the hurt on to really far away. If you want to run it without a suppresor sometimes I'd go to 20" mainly because rifles start to look really silly to me any shorter than that with no suppressor on them, plus it keeps the loud bit just that little bit further away. Any longer than 20" and you have a rifle that will be really long with a suppresor on it, and any shorter than 18" and you'll have to really work to make the rifle viable over 400yds.
My vote is 19", 150gr projectile and some reloder 23 and live happily ever after

My 2 c don't cut it or ceracoat it, have it reblued properly and keep it true to it's origins. Buy some "cheap" modern rifle second hand for a reasonable price and chop that if you wish. Being a grumpy old bugger sometimes, it both amuses and annoys me when people buy a 300 win mag or similar, chop most of the barrel off then find it's a bit of a camel and express surprise at the result.
There are plenty of calibres suited to hunting that type of country without alteration and taking shots in open country as well, 3030, 7.62x39, 308 spring to mind

Listen to Ryan 19 or 20" I wouldn't go shorter in a .270.
The other things you are doing will make this a much more usable rifle that will last you for years.

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If it was my Grandads rifle, I sure as hell wouldnt be chopping it or ceracoating it. Out of respect to my Grandad, I may tidy it up, and maybe redo the stock as you have done. But if the metalwork wasnt looking flash, I'd cough up for a nice blueing job, scope with a period correct scope and have at it. Then I would go buy some more modern rifle, possibly the same calibre just to make it easier. And chop the shit outa that if you want to. But not Grandads rifle.

And I'd swap the limbsaver out for a period correct decent butt pad. I find the limbsavers look pretty bloody average and dont last too long.

To me its all about practicality. Yes it would be nice to keep the rifle in original condition but if that means it doesn't fit your requirements then whats the point? So I agree with the 20" barrel approach, in my opinion this is an absolute minimum length for a cartridge like the 270, Even the at that length you will need the suppressor to get the muzzle blast back to something manageable. You will then have a rifle which is handy to use in the bush and be able to reach our for longer shots, 20" with a suppressor should also balance quite nicely.

It will be 20" now so take off only enough to tidy up crown n thread. Trust me on this,it will be fine in the bush and if you get to really really crappy area and decide Micky ducks name is mud as it's tangling. Unscrew it and put thread cap or insulation tape on it until back in clearer stuff.my howa is 2" longer than the model 70 is and it doesn't bother me...and I hunt some really crappy bush. Slow down and it really won't matter.if your going fast enough for it to matter,your going too fast lol

The original butt pad was hard red rubber n friggin useless.lumbsaver is gooderer by far lol

20 would be ideal. I've got a 20" 243 featherweight with dpt. Balances and carrys well in the bush.
In fact, it's currently my preferred bush rifle. I'm a confirmed 270 guy and wouldnt go under 20 personally.

The Duleys went 18 or 19 from memory but with a magnum can, that must mess with the balance but neeed to tame the blast.

22 with a can is a tad longer, no problem in the open country and tames the 150 grainer ssts I shoot nicely.

Are you sure it's 22"???? Mine sure as hell wasn't..

cut it mines 19 inch get it suppressed . if its loud you wont use it

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Are you sure it's 22"???? Mine sure as hell wasn't..

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Can confirm its factory 22'' (measured it) from the comments thus far it seems 20'' might be my best bet

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

The original butt pad was hard red rubber n friggin useless.lumbsaver is gooderer by far lol

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Agreed the original was almost pointless as far as recoil reduction the limbsaver has made a huge difference to the shoulder

A 19" or 20" surpressed 270 would ideal.

if I could have bought Howa with a longer barrel , 24-25" barrel I would have done so...... the little bit extra length would just make that little bit more velocity... and has been said the hole in the end is a little bit further from your ears...it DOES make a difference.

interesting about the magnum can..myunderstanding of it..and it says so in literature on cans...below 30/06 level std can...above 30/06 level magnum can..the case capacity is the same as .270 mine has std gunworks spartan..has had std DPT both worked fine...I PREFER the longer skinnier spartan because it comes back further towards stock..there is NOTHING in it weight wise,noise wise,price wise or sticking out the end wise.... tell you something for nothing,chuck the SS blast baffle into DPT on mates 25/06 seems to have made it a hell of a lot quieter..definately worth trying one.

If you are thinking seriously about chopping it ….then you really do need “help”. Restore it by all means, just don’t bastardise it. It’s an heirloom

Greetings,
You speak of your Grandad in the present tense which leads me to believe that you are in the younger ages group. I suggest that you make minimal changes to the rifle other than what you have already done. Suppress it if you like but leave the barrel as it is. If you chop it I can just about guarantee that one day you will think "Why the hell did I do that"? and it will bug you for the rest of your life. Please believe me on this from someone in your granddads cohort. I would dearly like to have a rifle either of my granddads had owned but the only one either of them had was a Lee Enfield in 1916 and 17 and the army took it back.
Regards Grandpamac.

I’ve got mine (tikka) cut to 18 inches and it’s awesome. Hand load 145gr eldx with superformance to 2925fps, about 75fps quicker than the factory eldx loads went when the barrel was 4 inches longer.
If going with a dpt suppressor you’ll probably want one of those stainless baffles if you cut below 20inches. I know Hardy won’t stand by their warranty on any of their suppressors in a 270 shorter than 20.
Just to side track a little.. when I chopped the end off mine I got a spare T2 brake I had indexed for it at the same time.. makes for a light wee rifle but none of your mates will go hunting with you if you do that!

Cheers

Missalot......you put a loudener on it!!!!!!! yeah nah stuff that for a game of soldiers

I chopped mine to something like 19". I can't actually remember and I'm to hungover to go and measure it for you. I run a DPT on it as well. Its usable but I'd love something shorter, a proper bushpig would be nice for the kaimais.

yeah I will put in two cents worth- the rifle is now yours ? you can do with it as you choose - I would go 20 in and a can - it is not a Holland and Holland

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Missalot......you put a loudener on it!!!!!!! yeah nah stuff that for a game of soldiers

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Yep… a lot more muzzle blast than having the loudener on a 24 inch barrel… I got sick of hunting by myself so put the suppressor back on 😂

Missalot...years back a mate had an early browning 25/06 with the boss system on end of barrel....a weight that moved on thread to change harmonics and it was ported...wallaby went hopping off down hill,mate opened up..the rest of us ran backwards blocking ears,the dogs down the hill looked funny trying to run after wallaby with front paws stuffed in ears...HOLY SMOKE that thing was obnoxious.

I went from a suppressed 22in tikka 308,down to 20in,down to 16in up to 18in ,up to 22in tikka.Tikka 22"pretty quiet with a gunworks suppresser on it.Shoot one deer,other deer just stand there looking at their dead mate.If you walking in the bush,just take suppresser off if it bothers you.Or dont cut shorter than 20"s as other have advised

I have just had my Howa 1500 270win cut down to 20” and suppressed by DPT. Too soon to tell how the balance etc is, but they did a stand up job!

If you want to make the rifle more useful without altering the originalness then perhaps consider putting a new (or secondhand) barrel on and cut it as short as you want. Keep the original barrel in the safe then when/if you want to restore the rifle too it's former glory you can refit the original barrel and put a period correct scope on it.

I have just been in the same situation. I inherited a model 70 22.250 carbine. I had plans to tidy it up and leave it original, thinking it would be a great gun for the kids to use .but after putting a few rounds through it made the call to suppress it. Left it at factory length (20 inch). Has made it way more user friendly, especially around young ears. As already mentioned, put a thread cap on it and good as new.
I think it all depends if you want to actually use the rifle or just sit around admiring it and fire the occasional shot?.

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My vote is 22" minimum for an -06 based cartridge. If you notice the difference between a 20 and a 22" barrel in the carry, you're either a bit like the princess in the "princess and the pea" nursery rhyme or you have ducks disease and your arse is a bit close to terra-firma.

Remember with a xx" barrel you are measuring the chamber which only houses the case, your effective barrel length on a 20" barrel is 17.5" thereabout for the powder to do it's work. You need around 20" in an -06 length case to consume all of the powder in the barrel otherwise you tend to get horrendous muzzle flash and the powder granules getting ejected are pretty nasty on suppressors both in general wear and tear and in the amount of crap that gets caught up in them which can cause corrosion if left on the gun. Similarly I wouldn't drop back any less than 20" on an -08 length case, yes they are 'handier' but you aren't getting any advantage over a 7.62x39 real world and the x39 is nicer to shoot with a shorter barrel and cheaper.

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Originally Posted by No.3

My vote is 22" minimum for an -06 based cartridge. If you notice the difference between a 20 and a 22" barrel in the carry, you're either a bit like the princess in the "princess and the pea" nursery rhyme or you have ducks disease and your arse is a bit close to terra-firma.

Remember with a xx" barrel you are measuring the chamber which only houses the case, your effective barrel length on a 20" barrel is 17.5" thereabout for the powder to do it's work. You need around 20" in an -06 length case to consume all of the powder in the barrel otherwise you tend to get horrendous muzzle flash and the powder granules getting ejected are pretty nasty on suppressors both in general wear and tear and in the amount of crap that gets caught up in them which can cause corrosion if left on the gun. Similarly I wouldn't drop back any less than 20" on an -08 length case, yes they are 'handier' but you aren't getting any advantage over a 7.62x39 real world and the x39 is nicer to shoot with a shorter barrel and cheaper.

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Not really. Without looking on the computer I'm picking there will be some powders that burn as much if not more in an 18" or 19" barrel than other powders in a longer barrel. So with that in mind how far do you need to shoot. An 18" or 19" with a higher bc projectile going 2900 plus will kill fine with more than enough energy over 750 yards. I have had several .270s and still own one and I couldn't tell the difference in recoil and muzzle blast between the 19" tikka and 22" tikka. There is a reason the .270 was the leading contender out of the "bush pigs" NZ Hunter done.

As for a short 08 case being similar to a 7.62x39. Not even remotely close.
2200 max with 150gr out of a full length barrel will be going pretty slow out of a 16" barrel and be severely lacking on the expansion and energy front. My 16" .308 with 168gr amax going 2520 fps expands reliably out to over 600 yards and kills well out to that range too. I used a 7.62x39 for a bit and it was a very poor killer especially with the cheap ammo. And god forbid you see a deer at 250 yards. So as far as having "no real world advantage over a x39" is a fair bit of a yarn. A 12" .308 is still better than a 24" 7.62x39.

Semantics. Should have added the disclaimer that my comments were for available factory loads, correct you can adjust things with reloading to offset some loss of barrel length.

As far as the short barrel .308, again with factory loads the real world performance is crap in a word. Reloading you can adjust and offset the loss of barrel length, but with factory loads most rounds are using projectiles of suitable jacket density and core hardness to offer reliable performance from short range out to say 250m or so give or take at standard SAAMI velocities. Chopping a barrel takes it out of SAAMI spec, something that needs to be considered. OK if you are happy to accept the consequences of the decision, and basically treat the round as a wildcat and reload accordingly.
For .308 I've seen some of these rounds start to have expansion issues (slug velocity too slow for reliable expansion) out of what are considered 'short' barrels (14" overall) at some fairly close ranges, not something I'd consider a reliable option after watching a few animals clean disappear after what should have been a solid hit and a definite killing shot. Yes you can offset that with reloading but with this discussion, I didn't see any reference to reloading in the initial question so have only considered the factory load option.

Re. 7.62x39 (getting off from the .270 subject obviously), but yep some of the chinese sourced ammo is not good - having said that with respected brand ammo loaded with an on-spec projectile used within it's limitations from a standard length barrel (and standard on a lot of x39's is 18" if not shorter) the caliber will drop anything in a bush hunting situation out to 150m with complete reliability. One of the issues with the x39 in NZ is it often gets reloaded using whatever .308 pill is on hand, which can lead to issues in the bore sealing area in the Russian-spec barrels (.312) and weird/variable terminal performance. I stand by the statement no real world advantage with the .308 but add the proviso 'over the average bush hunting situation out to 150m', and the package is far more pleasant to handle, shoot and work with. And I've used a lot of 7.62 and .308 over the years. Probably dropped more animals with the x39 recently though, a cheap, cheerful JW-103 which is just nice to use (after bedding and sorting the scope mounting setup, originally factory tapped by foot not hand). Given ideal conditions, I'd have no issue with taking a 200m shot from the x39, but again that's using decent factory ammo and not chinese stuff of unknown parentage and likely carting different pills in the same box. Worst example of that I saw was a box of 50 sporting soft points, that turned out to be 34 copper jacketed soft point, 14 copper washed magnetic soft point and 2 FMJ...

I wouldn't chop or put a moderator the rifle, especially as its sentimental...just enjoy shooting it with muffs or plugs...only takes a few seconds to put em in even if hunting...when you are ready get a short lightweight 308 with a DPT and enjoy shooting that too....

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Originally Posted by No.3

Semantics. Should have added the disclaimer that my comments were for available factory loads, correct you can adjust things with reloading to offset some loss of barrel length.

As far as the short barrel .308, again with factory loads the real world performance is crap in a word. Reloading you can adjust and offset the loss of barrel length, but with factory loads most rounds are using projectiles of suitable jacket density and core hardness to offer reliable performance from short range out to say 250m or so give or take at standard SAAMI velocities. Chopping a barrel takes it out of SAAMI spec, something that needs to be considered. OK if you are happy to accept the consequences of the decision, and basically treat the round as a wildcat and reload accordingly.
For .308 I've seen some of these rounds start to have expansion issues (slug velocity too slow for reliable expansion) out of what are considered 'short' barrels (14" overall) at some fairly close ranges, not something I'd consider a reliable option after watching a few animals clean disappear after what should have been a solid hit and a definite killing shot. Yes you can offset that with reloading but with this discussion, I didn't see any reference to reloading in the initial question so have only considered the factory load option.

Re. 7.62x39 (getting off from the .270 subject obviously), but yep some of the chinese sourced ammo is not good - having said that with respected brand ammo loaded with an on-spec projectile used within it's limitations from a standard length barrel (and standard on a lot of x39's is 18" if not shorter) the caliber will drop anything in a bush hunting situation out to 150m with complete reliability. One of the issues with the x39 in NZ is it often gets reloaded using whatever .308 pill is on hand, which can lead to issues in the bore sealing area in the Russian-spec barrels (.312) and weird/variable terminal performance. I stand by the statement no real world advantage with the .308 but add the proviso 'over the average bush hunting situation out to 150m', and the package is far more pleasant to handle, shoot and work with. And I've used a lot of 7.62 and .308 over the years. Probably dropped more animals with the x39 recently though, a cheap, cheerful JW-103 which is just nice to use (after bedding and sorting the scope mounting setup, originally factory tapped by foot not hand). Given ideal conditions, I'd have no issue with taking a 200m shot from the x39, but again that's using decent factory ammo and not chinese stuff of unknown parentage and likely carting different pills in the same box. Worst example of that I saw was a box of 50 sporting soft points, that turned out to be 34 copper jacketed soft point, 14 copper washed magnetic soft point and 2 FMJ...

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Scott Traill who is a very well respected gunsmith used to have a few videos of shooting with 10" and 12" 308s he made including shooting deer out to nearly 500 yards with them.

There are 168gr eld factory loads available which are probably more powerful than my reloads so do equally as far. 178gr eld factory loads, 165gr SST loads and 150gr superformance loads all factory that will all most likely do 400 yards on deer out of a 16" 308 barrel. So yup plenty of factory .308 loads. Don't know of a factory 7.62x39 load that I would even consider to shoot a deer with over 200 yards with a 16" barrel in a 7.62x39.
You stated no real world advantage in bush hunting ranges out to 150 metres. I know what I would rather have in my hands out of a .308 and a 7.62x39 on a big roaring red, Sika, Rusa, Wapiti or a Sambar and I can tell you that not many if any hunters would choose the 7.62x39. I can run reduced 130gr loads in the .308 that don't recoil at all and still eat the 7.62x39.

However the discussion was about .270s and the factory eldx load and superformance load will do more than fine out of a 19" barrel with not a significant amount more blast or recoil than a 22"

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Originally Posted by Mangle

I wouldn't chop or put a moderator the rifle, especially as its sentimental...just enjoy shooting it with muffs or plugs...only takes a few seconds to put em in even if hunting...when you are ready get a short lightweight 308 with a DPT and enjoy shooting that too....

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sorry mate strongly disagree only takes a few seconds to put plugs in -yeah right - deer gone - bush hunting and that is most of what I have done and its see deer shoot all within seconds - no luxury of put ear plugs in - no not an option - either put a can on it as is or cut it back to 20 inch and a can - for crying out loud its not a Purdey or Holland and Holland or Rigby - its sentimental value continues with or without a can- you lot a carrying on as if its just been lost for good - its a work hunting rifle

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Originally Posted by TLB

Scott Traill who is a very well respected gunsmith used to have a few videos of shooting with 10" and 12" 308s he made including shooting deer out to nearly 500 yards with them.

There are 168gr eld factory loads available which are probably more powerful than my reloads so do equally as far. 178gr eld factory loads, 165gr SST loads and 150gr superformance loads all factory that will all most likely do 400 yards on deer out of a 16" 308 barrel. So yup plenty of factory .308 loads. Don't know of a factory 7.62x39 load that I would even consider to shoot a deer with over 200 yards with a 16" barrel in a 7.62x39.
You stated no real world advantage in bush hunting ranges out to 150 metres. I know what I would rather have in my hands out of a .308 and a 7.62x39 on a big roaring red, Sika, Rusa, Wapiti or a Sambar and I can tell you that not many if any hunters would choose the 7.62x39. I can run reduced 130gr loads in the .308 that don't recoil at all and still eat the 7.62x39.

However the discussion was about .270s and the factory eldx load and superformance load will do more than fine out of a 19" barrel with not a significant amount more blast or recoil than a 22"

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ahh yes but scott was the first to admit it took a hell of a lot of clicks to do any range and the energy was getting low indeed....

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

Listen to Ryan 19 or 20" I wouldn't go shorter in a .270.
The other things you are doing will make this a much more usable rifle that will last you for years.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

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I concur
I hate 270 with a passion and would never own one
However I had a mate who was silly enough to buy one against my advice
And chop it to 18” again against my advice I said 20” absolute minimum (looking at the numbers)
We spent alot of time trying to get that thing going properly
And mannaged to turn in into a killer 0-300m bush gun but the original assignment was a 0-700 do all rig shooting the 145 eldx with a vx5 on top it was just never good enough for that

I concur with Ryan’s first comment. But at the end of the day just do whatever you want, barrels after all are a replaceable item and you can always put a new one back on later or change it up again etc. My Dads Sako M591 .308 that he has had since I was in nappies is now chopped to 18” with a dpt, still in its original wood stock and blueing. Still such an awesome classic rifle that’s now a bit more pleasant on the ears.

Your grandad: "suppressors are for pussies"

You: "but a suppressor would look after my hearing grandad!"

Grandad: "WHAT DID YOU SAY!?! YOU NEED TO SPEAK UP. I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

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Originally Posted by Floundering Around

Your grandad: "suppressors are for pussies"

You: "but a suppressor would look after my hearing grandad!"

Grandad: "WHAT DID YOU SAY!?! YOU NEED TO SPEAK UP. I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

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Pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one lol

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Originally Posted by stagstalker

I concur with Ryan’s first comment. But at the end of the day just do whatever you want, barrels after all are a replaceable item and you can always put a new one back on later or change it up again etc. My Dads Sako M591 .308 that he has had since I was in nappies is now chopped to 18” with a dpt, still in its original wood stock and blueing. Still such an awesome classic rifle that’s now a bit more pleasant on the ears.

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A rebarreled rifle is no
Longer original from a collection standpoint if it’s something that is an heirloom or something that could potentially become quite valuable to a collector I don’t really condone cutting them same reason a don’t like hotrods a nicely restored original as possible classic car will always win in my mind
You can always buy a new tikka sako howa for your chop job no need to molest a classic