Hi I found this article quite a good read. Maybe a little one side but food for though anyway
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Hi I found this article quite a good read. Maybe a little one side but food for though anyway
Not really a reason to have one is it :P But I do love my little 3 banger.....and target shooting aside a nice compact 308 slinging 150+ at deer under 200 is pretty hard to beat
Its a fair article. 308 won't go anywhere anytime ever. My bet is that it will remain in the top three selling rifles for years to come. I love mine, always have, always will. The ability to run them as lightweight carbines, a heavy bullet and expecting to use it as a snap shooting carry-all-day rifle is a major plus.
It's the recoil part that makes the most sense for me. Shooting my 6.5 on a steep Taranaki hillside covered in thistles and sheep shit, unable to find a decent rest, animals are at awkward angles... and trying to work out what the fickle wind is doing... last thing I need is a .30 cal recoil. 6.5 just works better all round in that kind of application, no brainer for me.
It works, so it stays.
I won't be selling my 308. Wifey wants something in the near future and I'd like to have something to ring gongs out to 800y.
My solution- hand load 168gr TMKs and put a VX5 2-10 CDS ZL2 on her as opposed to trying to build a dedicated rig. That way it can do both hunting and gong ringing.
One of the reasons I love 308 is it's simplicity.
Yip I get the recoil thing, I don't have a 308 at the moment but had a one years ago and liked it, but then got caught up in the Latte version fad before the current 6.5's came out. Now I find myself wanting to go back to 30 cal not sure why.
Anyway the point of posting this was the other day we were at our range doing our monthly 300m club shoot and I noticed a guy watching us, I asked him if he wanted a go and he said nah nah I only got my 308 with me I came down to sight it in at 100- if I brought my Magnum i'd give it ago. I though to myself "really" he obviously didn't take notice of the 2 x 303's in the mix with the rest being 223's 243's and a 7-08. So I said to him that the 100m is free go for it.
That little conversion just got me thinking do people these day really think that a 308 is only good for a bush gun and you need 6 - 6.5 wizz bang or a magnum to hit a target at 300m ?
The author sums it up well at the end of the article; its super user friendly and super versatile. Add that to our unique NZ situation of lots of forested public land AND allowed suppressors, and I agree with him...its not going away any time soon.
I have a .308 and 6.5 CM. For me the .308 with a Leupold VX 3i 3.5x10 scope is my general bush hunting red deer rifle and certainly for the huge red stags in the pine forests where I live, loaded with 180gr .30 calibre bullets. The 6.5 CM with a Leupold VX-5 2-10 is my light deer open area rifle. Kaimanwa and Kawekas for Sika and also fallow out Whanganui way. Both are very accurate rifles.
7mm08 not even mentioned in the article, I'm crying in to my latte :TT TT::D
I've shot .308 out to 600m, and people do shoot further. The drop is something like 3 yards so you're really mortaring them. Great fun. I was holding 4 MOA accuracy which I didn't think was too bad for a blind guy through aperture sights.
They'll stay super-sonic past 1000 yards so if you know your dope there's plenty of twack in em.
Does what I want it to do pretty good and that's put meat on my plate. Personally I don't see the point of spending more money on another fang dangle new cal for the same outcome. But that's just me. I respect other people's reasons for changing from the 308win however. Each to their own.
Graham Henry wrote an article for rod n rifle some 20 plus years ago...maybe even 25...why not the .308.....dig it out as its still as relevant today as when it was written.
My primary deer rifle for the past 10+ years has been a 308. It’s gone through some different incarnations (un-suppressed, suppressed, different scopes, different stocks) but it’s always performed consistently in different environments, whether it be bush hunting for reds, or chasing fallow or sika in open country. I’ve given some vague thought to re-barreling it to a 6.5 CM or 6.5x47 as I think they are the sweet spot for good ballistics with low recoil, but concluded that I’m wasting my time as the 308 is perfectly fine for my purposes. I shoot at ranges under 300yd so high BC isn’t that critical, and the 308 delivers considerably more energy than the 6.5s at the ranges I shoot at. In terms of recoil a light 308 with no suppressor is pretty lively. Mine weighs 7.25lb but with a suppressor and limbsaver it’s very manageable; and I normally hover around 70kg...
My 308 shoots 3 rounds touching with power shok 150gr or Hornady 165gr interlock factory.
It does better with hand loads and for a series 1 vanguard that gets a bit of abuse if I do miss it sure as hell ain't the rifle.
A part of the reason I'm putting a vx5 on aside from the $$ is to trigger the hell out of the 6.5 owners at our LR shoots when I beat them with a measly 308
The 308 owes its ongoing popularity to:
Nato standard cartridge
Required in many shooting competition rules
Large existing market, knowledge base, production facilities and economies of scale.
Any cartridge that's even slightly inferior to the 308 (303, 8x57, 30/30) is one a one way trip to history, unless it has some decisive compensating feature (300 AAC, 358 federal, 44 Mag)
Therefore almost every other hunting and target cartridge in common use today is in some way better than the 308. (270, 6.5Cr,300WSM etc etc)
In my opinion, the 308 is a baseline benchmark everyone feels familiar with and its just a question how much better any other cartridge is by comparison, for whatever special niche or all round useage.
308 Hahahahaha - just a passing fad, fashions change (but best of all they sell new rifles to all sorts)
Maybe the recoil factor is guys using short barrel 308s . My 24 inch REM 308 using 165gr Hornady i dont even have a recoil pad on the end of my HS Presion stock and dont feel a thing.
Maybe if firing enough rounds i feel it at a range but if i had a limpsaver on it i could fire it all day for a week and be no problem.
Hunting with it shooting a animal is no difference than using a .22, never even notice any recoil at all and havnt even got any type of recoil pad on it. PS Dont use a suppresser either.
Still, like my 243 better , its still the King and no recoil with that also
years ago when I was about 17 an acquaintance of my mums cousin was talking up his little Spanish rifle. Had a nick-name for it but something like the mule. It was meant to kick somewhat.
Once I got to finally have a go I found it was a little K98 308 cavalry carbine. Still had the saddle ring on it I think.
Anyhoo I did think it might kick a bit being so small and light. NUP
I'd been doing a bit with the shotgun, clay targets and ducks for the last couple of years so maybe I was a bit more used to recoil.
I distinctly remember thinking after the first shot that the SXS shotty I was using kicked more. I had a Remington Woodsmaster 243 at the time and I don't reckon it kicked much more than that. I did think that it was odd
He happily asked me "it boots a bit doesn't it" and I basically replied with a half hearted yes so I didn't make him sound like a softy.
It was a neat little gun and I'd love to have one, one day. Even in 7x57. What a great little bush gun
I remember reading a treatsie on british firearm development about the transition from big bores, 45 etc to smaller cals. The french started it with the 8mm lebel but the english (and americans) experimented with everything from .243 to .35 and reached the conclusion that .3 or thereabouts gave the best performance over the widest range of conditions.
They lacked the advantages of modern powders and case design but these really only add incrementally to the performance of what obviously is a pretty damn good diameter round.
Then there is Todd Hodnett shooting 308s out to mile and getting on the steel.
Probably some footage on YouTube.
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My veiw on 308 if you’re a hunter who shoots off the shelf factory ammunition only
And wants a basic off the shelf rifle to shoot on game 300 or less
Go for it fantastic caliber for that imo you can get ammunition almost anywhere farm supplies etc where you may not find other common calibers like 7mm-08 for example
That’s where it ends for me if you a reloader/target shooter long range hunter etc etc then there’s far better calibers out there than 308
The argument is used that full bore shooters use it at 1000 yards yes they do but alot of them are switching to better caliber rifles now
There are other calibers that just do it better
I always say its It’s abit like a car yes a 4 cilinder 2 ltr can do 160kmph but it struggles
Were as a v8 will sit there Comfortably
You add a super charger (high bc bullet) to that v8 it will do it ever better
If all you do is drive arround town and you just want a simple little car to get the job done then a little 2 ltr is fine
308 is here to stay and it has its place yes there are newer calibers that outperform it but weather the owner needs extra performance or weather they just want to “keep it simple”
These days my main work rifle is a .223 , over 20x rounds gets a bit tedious with a .308 these days. However, I have owned and used .308's for 42 years for hunting and target shooting out to 900 yds. Have taken every game species in NZ with one and have never felt the need for using another caliber. While I have taken game at some fairly long ranges I tend to live by the rule of being a better hunter and stalking closer. No-one makes a perfect shot every time at long range and it's not a nice feeling to lose a wounded animal. Just my 2c worth. Long live the mighty .308.
If people have managed to kill deer with longbows and spears for thousands of years...
Everything is a trade-off. There is no "better" without giving something up in other areas. I think you worded it correctly when you said "is in some way better", as when all factors are considered im unaware of anything that is better all-round.
eg the cartridges you mention, all have pro's as well as cons vs the .308
.270 - reduced barrel life, long action, minimal efficient high-bc pills available.
The .300WSM is in a different class being a magnum cambering. Substantially increased ammo ammo costs, reduced barrel life, more recoil, reduced ammo availability, comparatively low capacity magazines etc.
With the 6.5cm - less barrel life, less energy out to ethical hunting ranges. At the point that a 6.5cm has more energy than a .308 you should probably be using a larger caliber anyway (600+ m), and to 600m there is very little meaningful difference in drop or windage when a fair comparison is run (most writers pit the 6.5cm with highly efficient ELD type bullets vs frumpy soft point flat base projectiles for a non-fair comparison). In fact last time i shot 700m with .308 I needed about 1.5mil less elevation than a 6.5cm that was next to me.
IMO when all factors are considered and fair ballistic comparisons are run, the .308 still has a lot to offer against any cambering.
Ill be shooting .308 out to about 1050m this weekend assuming the weather is OK.
The funny thing is, back in the day I never heard anyone saying 270's (or even 243s as I read somewhere recently) were barrel burners especially when using factory ammo.
They were all good for several thousand rounds minimum when looked after properly. 5k seems to be a number that popped up back then for centerfires.
maybe 22-250 and some of the magnums like the 7mm rem mag.
unless you were culling and only shot a couple of deer a year with a sight check every know and again, they were meant to last for yonks.
I think the .308 is a fantastic cartridge for reloading and I haven't bought a factory round for one since 1987. It'll do anything any other cartridge can do up to 300m and do it well. Add to that it's far more versatile than most cartridges. By that I mean it will work in short barrels without too much in lost velocity, made for shorter actions and is generally an inherently accurate cartridge.
Then there is also whacking steel at 2 km
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnA1y3GDE_s
Not saying they are barrel burners as such, just that part of the trade off when going with a smaller caliber for a given powder capacity is reduced barrel life. I would class 7mm RUM, .264win mag, some of the Nosler cartridges etc as true barrel burners, some being poked at 600-800 rounds.
The more powder a cartridge has for a given bore diameter the less barrel life it will have.
eg .243, .260, 7mm-08, .308, all have similar powder capacities being based off the same parent case, so barrel life will follow from the smallest diameter having the least barrel life (.243), to the largest diameter having the longest barrel life (.308). The .243 would the most "overbore", and the .308 the least overbore out of the options mentioned.
A .243 barrel may be good for say 2500 rounds and the .308 good for 5000 + rounds. (im just making numbers up but they are probably in the ballpark - .308 may even be higher).
For some its may not be a factor worth considering, and for others it may be a fairly important consideration.
My point is nothing is for free when it comes to cartridges, everything has a trade-off in some form or another.
Is a few less clicks on the elevation turret worth a couple thousand rounds less barrel life? Is less energy at 0-600m hunting ranges, and slightly more energy at 600-1000 at the expense of a couple thousand rounds of barrel life a trade-off you would like to make? Is a couple inches more wind drift at 500 (so even less at closer ranges) worth a couple thousand rounds barrel life?
Im not sure, to each his own..
One thing is for sure, im glad we have so many great options to choose from.
@ChrisW all good mate. I do understand where you are coming from.
years ago 500m was a long, long shot. if you wanted to get something out that far it was 7mm rem mags, maybe the odd 300 and I did hear about a couple of 338's floating around my way back in the 90's.
if you told people you routinely shot game out past 6 hundy you would've been looked upon as a liar.
Nowadays it completely possible as we all know. Better rangefinders/scopes, powders and projectiles etc