Thread: Quietest firearm possible?

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

what Tim has shown above would be my choice hands down..... all the hard work is already done. running a 151grn hp cast projectile off trademe powered by around 7grns of trail boss is QUIETER than a long barrelled norinco .22 with suppressor (even a big one) Im using a GW Spartan can on the x39mm
Ive shot bunnies with it and its mates don't move unless you cycle the bolt,or mate shoots next one with .22 LOL.
as said above be VERY aware of background as subsonics whizz off into distance rather alarmingly .

Originally Posted by tommygun

Yep I see there is a De Lisle reproduction on trademe at the moment, but they want $2000 for it.... I have a Baikal 7.62x39 and it shares the can on my .308, it is quiet with subsonic loads but not as quiet as some of the .22's i've handled, I think @Friwi must be right, my mate has a Marlin XT22 with a suppressor and it make less noise than an air rifle. Maybe i'll stick with the 7.62x39, I've been using 150 grain Sierra .311 Pro Hunters with 7 grains of Trail Boss, are cast bullets worth trying?

With the cast bullets in 303 cal (7.62x39 is the same as 303 rather than 7.62x51 which in same as 308) the 180gr and 220gr cast with or without gas check hold their energy a bit further than the 150s. They still rise and fall at the same rate as the 150s as long as they are doing the same speed. Definitely worth trying as they are far cheaper than using copper jacketed bullets and at the lower speeds the softer lead seems to mushroom better than the ones designed for higher speeds. (Though deform is probably a better word than mushroom.) You do need just a grain or so more of the trail boss to get the same 1000 fps to stay subsonic. Projectils are around 8 or 9 cents each when you start making your own.....add a 10c primer, and a few cents worth of powder and it makes for cheap shooting too, not that this is the aim of said project...

One advantage of the break open rifles is overall length is not an issue as it is when feeding from a magazine. So the 220gr will fit no matter how long it is.

Unless your shooting gongs or targets,Holding energy in that upper range of weight is useless. A .30 cal 150 gr HP cast lead bullet at subsonic speeds travels through two goats standing next to each others( experienced it 3 different times at 30m, 90 m and 156 m!) so any more weight on your projectile is unproductive. ( inless you want to shoot through 4 or 5 goats standing next to each other's, good luck, you may as well play the lotto).
Because you are adding more powder you generate more noise. And in some cases, the rifling twist used for stabilising normal bullets at supersonic speeds is not fast enough to stabilise heavier bullets at subsonic speeds, so you can loose on accuracy.

Cast bullets are definitely cheaper than the jacketed bullets, but I have yet to see a cast projectile shooting as accuratly as some jacketed projectiles do at subsonic speeds.

Originally Posted by Friwi

Unless your shooting gongs or targets,Holding energy in that upper range of weight is useless. A .30 cal 150 gr HP cast lead bullet at subsonic speeds travels through two goats standing next to each others( experienced it 3 different times at 30m, 90 m and 156 m!) so any more weight on your projectile is unproductive. ( inless you want to shoot through 4 or 5 goats standing next to each other's, good luck, you may as well play the lotto).
Because you are adding more powder you generate more noise. And in some cases, the rifling twist used for stabilising normal bullets at supersonic speeds is not fast enough to stabilise heavier bullets at subsonic speeds, so you can loose on accuracy.

Cast bullets are definitely cheaper than the jacketed bullets, but I have yet to see a cast projectile shooting as accurately as some jacketed projectiles do at subsonic speeds.

Thinner skinned animals and I am inclined to agree. It is like buying faster 22LR. In most cases subs (22) will go straight through a rabbit and a super just goes through faster. But with more stubborn animals I have found the bigger bullets more like hitting it with a bigger hammer.

When trying to remain subsonic, the only limit is speed. So to carry more energy further you need more weight. If you have sufficient energy then more weight is not needed. A 150gr traveling at the same speed as a 220gr will not carry the same energy. I used the Hornady ballistic calculator and by pushing it all the way out to 250 yards (way more than I would ever use a sub 30cal) I found the trajectory difference is negligible, velocity difference is remarkably closer than I expected as well, but energy retained remains considerably higher on the heavier bullet as to be expected. As mentioned, on soft game like goats this is not really a problem, but on heavier set game like a sturdy bush stag or ornery boar, I think I would go for the heavier bullet. For penetration in these cases a copper jacketed "normal" projectile would work but so too would a harder compound lead. With lead you can control the amount of softness so it mushrooms / distorts quickly (soft) or holds its shape for penetration (hard).

All will work, and whatever you decide you want to use then the beauty of handloading is you can load exactly what you prefer. For subs I prefer a large 220gr at around 1000fps and from what I have seen it works "up close and personal" in scrub. You are also correct that accuracy is still key and if you are having success with 150s then a 150 that hits its target will be more effective than any 220 that misses.