Thread: Rifle choice: $1600 budget

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

The T3 stock is a bit skimpy at the pistol grip for mans hands. The fore-stock is flimsy and bears on the barrel so Bipod is out. 243 a bit light for shots at 400 for a beginner.
Howa would be better, a bergara might be better again for fit.
He could get a second hand Weatherby at a good price, but whatever rifle he does get 243 wouldn't be my suggestion for a first rifle

Really, the Tikka stock has to be the best budget stock by miles, they are full of fiber and remarkably rigid while your low end Howa stocks are shocking and definitely need opening up to give a bipod a chance.

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Really, the Tikka stock has to be the best budget stock by miles, they are full of fiber and remarkably rigid while your low end Howa stocks are shocking and definitely need opening up to give a bipod a chance.

Yeah, I've owned both, the tikka for end is rigid, none of mine came close to making contact with the berrel, even if squeezing them together, and could be shot of the bipod repeatedly no problem. The houge Howas stocks on the other hand, pretty soft and flimsy. Better shot of a pack than a bipod if repeatability is required.

Originally Posted by Nick-D

Yeah, I've owned both, the tikka for end is rigid, none of mine came close to making contact with the berrel, even if squeezing them together, and could be shot of the bipod repeatedly no problem. The houge Howas stocks on the other hand, pretty soft and flimsy. Better shot of a pack than a bipod if repeatability is required.

The Tikka stock bears on the barrel it is not free floated. There is a bearing point 70mm from the tip and a second 163mm from the fore end tip. The tip will often bear on the barrel
Both apply upward pressure to the barrel. This means that shooting off a hard surface or a Bipod is going to affect the harmonics. If the Tikka stock is free floated the fore end needs to be stabilised so that it wont twist at the recoil lug. The other rifles can be free floated without issue
The Tikka stock multiplies felt recoil contrary to Newtons laws

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

The Tikka stock bears on the barrel it is not free floated. There is a bearing point 70mm from the tip and a second 163mm from the fore end tip. The tip will often bear on the barrel
Both apply upward pressure to the barrel. This means that shooting off a hard surface or a Bipod is going to affect the harmonics. If the Tikka stock is free floated the fore end needs to be stabilised so that it wont twist at the recoil lug. The other rifles can be free floated without issue
The Tikka stock multiplies felt recoil contrary to Newtons laws

Why do they shoot so well then.
Ask how I know

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by andyanimal31

Why do they shoot so well then.
Ask how I know

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

They shoot well because Tikka got the bearing points correct. Tikkas are pressure bedded, so they will shoot well in a given repeatable situation like a range, but in a different situation - over a log, bonnet etc can produce and unexplained WTF miss. They shoot even better in an aftermarket stock

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

They shoot well because Tikka got the bearing points correct. Tikkas are pressure bedded, so they will shoot well in a given repeatable situation like a range, but in a different situation - over a log, bonnet etc can produce and unexplained WTF miss. They shoot even better in an aftermarket stock

Interesting thoughts, after reading them I unwrapped an unused TX3 stock and put a barreled action in it. There is one designed contact point on either side of the barrel about 8cm from the action, nothing at all near the tip.

I don't see those contact points on either side of the barrel as having anything to do with the bedding, I always assumed they there are to ensure that the barrel stays centered in the barrel channel (which has very tight tolerances on the barrel, to keep shit and crap out I imagine). And I assumed that they are deliberately located far enough away from the tip of the barrel that they wouldn't accuracy (I've always removed them anyway).

I'm taken with the genius of the Tikka design that economizes where it can to give hunters a high quality sako barrel etc.

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Interesting thoughts, after reading them I unwrapped an unused TX3 stock and put a barreled action in it. There is one designed contact point on either side of the barrel about 8cm from the action, nothing at all near the tip.

I don't see those contact points on either side of the barrel as having anything to do with the bedding, I always assumed they there are to ensure that the barrel stays centered in the barrel channel (which has very tight tolerances on the barrel, to keep shit and crap out I imagine). And I assumed that they are deliberately located far enough away from the tip of the barrel that they wouldn't accuracy (I've always removed them anyway).

I'm taken with the genius of the Tikka design that economizes where it can to give hunters a high quality sako barrel etc.

The old wood stocked Sako's were pressure bedded too with upward pressure at the fore end tip. This worked well but water could swell the stock and move the POI

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

They shoot well because Tikka got the bearing points correct. Tikkas are pressure bedded, so they will shoot well in a given repeatable situation like a range, but in a different situation - over a log, bonnet etc can produce and unexplained WTF miss. They shoot even better in an aftermarket stock

This is 100% correct and thought this was common knowledge? Get away with maybe shooting a 223 tikka off a bipod like a varmint as not much recoil, but others you are better off over a pack or bags.

Have a Tikka in a Manners and had that bedded and free-floating same as a custom in a Ken Henderson, it has a alloy bedding block but I still bedded that as thought the action load wasn't spread out enough where it was loading on the bedding block.

Tikka's shoot well because they make great barrels and have amazing quality control, the action tolerances are also excellent.

Originally Posted by jackson21

This is 100% correct and thought this was common knowledge? Get away with maybe shooting a 223 tikka off a bipod like a varmint as not much recoil, but others you are better off over a pack or bags.

Have a Tikka in a Manners and had that bedded and free-floating same as a custom in a Ken Henderson, it has a alloy bedding block but I still bedded that as thought the action load wasn't spread out enough where it was loading on the bedding block.

Tikka's shoot well because they make great barrels and have amazing quality control, the action tolerances are also excellent.

Was the Ken H stock noticeably better after bedding?

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

The Tikka stock bears on the barrel it is not free floated. There is a bearing point 70mm from the tip and a second 163mm from the fore end tip. The tip will often bear on the barrel
Both apply upward pressure to the barrel. This means that shooting off a hard surface or a Bipod is going to affect the harmonics. If the Tikka stock is free floated the fore end needs to be stabilised so that it wont twist at the recoil lug. The other rifles can be free floated without issue
The Tikka stock multiplies felt recoil contrary to Newtons laws

Nawww, the only place the stock should be touching the barrel on a plastic stocked Tikka is just in front of the action. There is a little nub on each side of the stock contacting the barrel on both sides just infront of the chamber. It should not be making contact elsewhere.

Originally Posted by ChrisW

Nawww, the only place the stock should be touching the barrel on a plastic stocked Tikka is just in front of the action. There is a little nub on each side of the stock contacting the barrel on both sides just infront of the chamber. It should not be making contact elsewhere.

Have you done the 'dollar bill' test with yours ? If it is free floated it will be because either someone has relieved the factory pressure bedding points or the rifle action has been bedded and the person doing it very slightly elevated the front of the action to give clearance from the stock.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Have you done the 'dollar bill' test with yours ? If it is free floated it will be because either someone has relieved the factory pressure bedding points or the rifle action has been bedded and the person doing it very slightly elevated the front of the action to give clearance from the stock.

Sorry mate, but you're wrong. Whatever your experience with them is not the norm I guarantee you.
Id have "checked" literally dozens and dozens of them. Brand new rifles. Iv shot many tikka's and trouble shooted for warranty / accuracy guarantee. They should free float. The times they don't is when the action and recoil lug isn't seated properly.
Im sure iv posted pictures here before of where the Tikka stock contacts..let me see if I can dig it up

Originally Posted by ChrisW

Sorry mate, but you're wrong. Whatever your experience with them is not the norm I guarantee you.
Id have "checked" literally dozens and dozens of them. Brand new rifles. Iv shot many tikka's and trouble shooted for warranty / accuracy guarantee. They should free float. The times they don't is when the action and recoil lug isn't seated properly.
Im sure iv posted pictures here before of where the Tikka stock contacts..let me see if I can dig it up

Lets see the photos, the T3 I have here has the standard garden variety pressure points as have the three others I have worked on

Originally Posted by Nick-D

The houge Howas stocks on the other hand, pretty soft and flimsy. Better shot of a pack than a bipod if repeatability is required.

I had a Howa Ranch (1500?) in 243 with a Hogue. It shot like a laser, and I shot off a bipod. I'm not sure where you get flimsy from, the stock was solid to the point I didn't like the weight.

Best shot I had on it was shooting a fallow half-yearling (not much more than a handbag) through the heart at 335m. That was on a 3-9x40 Nikon scope with a plex reticule.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

I had a Howa Ranch (1500?) in 243 with a Hogue. It shot like a laser, and I shot off a bipod. I'm not sure where you get flimsy from, the stock was solid to the point I didn't like the weight.

Best shot I had on it was shooting a fallow half-yearling (not much more than a handbag) through the heart at 335m. That was on a 3-9x40 Nikon scope with a plex reticule.

On my mates one (which shoots like a laser) but we found that we could relatively easily torque the stock to the point that it could put pressure on the barrel, that's not going to happen often and shouldnt happen off a bench etc but the potential is there. They are flexible and always wonder how much more flexible they might become in the heat. Still amazing bang for the buck tho.