Is it possible to do the halfcock safety like the t3 on the sako 75?
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Is it possible to do the halfcock safety like the t3 on the sako 75?
Why? Just run your actual safety
the 75 sits there nicely by its self
its how I hunt with mine while it is in my hands
its not enough to keep the bolt from opening by itself on your back or anything silly but its great while hunting
you will know this already Bud....but will post it anyway for others who dont.
us KIWIs have a hangup from the 50s-60s-70s when most folk hunted with a SMLE as they were the most common rifles around....you hunted with bolt open as they were a cock on closing action and the safeties werent all that safe AT ALL. Ive seen folk with mausers walk around with striker down,and seen the dents in primers too. know of one chap who dropped rifle down a bank,lost fingers and luckily bullet deflected outwards after hitting colar bone so had lovely scars but lived to tell tale.
I learnt to hunt with bolt open....the safety SOMETIMES goes on when very close to animal or on range waiting for wind gust to pass,other than that ita chambered round and bolt open.
lever actions with exposed hammer are the safest in my opinion.
A round chambered on a functional safety is much safer than a half cock. Let alone the risk of the bolt opening, losing the round and having to chamber a new one to shoot an animal.
After 25 years of using a "half bolt" position that is the same conclusion I came to.
Started using the safety on my Howa earlier this year. This change came about due to howa's not having a strong half-bolt position when compared to the Rugers (m77 MkII) and sakos (L and A series) I have owed in the past. A long action howa (270) would quietly bump closed (very dangerous) and my current 308 bumps open with a loud "click clack" - very annoying when sneaking around the in the Blueys!
So I have made the decision to run my rifles either empty or on full cock with safety on. At the end of the day, that is how the manufacturers intended firearms to be used.
Not sure if I made it clear what I’m after. My rifle has a good half cock. But what I’m after is whether it’s possible to modify the bolt so you can put the safety on while in halfcock and it locks the bolt in that position, like is easily done on the tikka t3. I know this is not for everyone, but something I like on my rifles. Looks like it would be possible, but just wanting to know if someone has done this.
No it’s not according to my local gunsmith. Can do an 85 but not a 75.
Ok thanks
You can lock the bolt in the closed position with the safety which will achieve the same result and be less of a pointless exercise
Just use the frigging safety in the way it was designed instead of butchering a modern rifle in a way only kiwis seem to be fond of doing...
The fact that European rifles including UK, have a heavy half open bolt position compared to American suggests to me that the Euro manufacturers intended for their firearms to be used that way - and that is what their customers wanted. A lot of US hunting has been done from stands where having one up the spout and safety applied is fine. Most of the Euro firearms that have come to NZ come from countries that don't hunt from stands. In NZ the Mountain Safety Council taught me ' Use a half open bolt or action only when in a state of semi-readiness'. To me a half open bolt with thumb and fore-finger holding the bolt in a positive grip is the safe position before moving to bolt closed and safety on (or not).
One position is probably no safer than the other from a mechanical point, but with the half open bolt I have positive contact with the bolt at all times and know the gun cant fire whereas with the safety on I have to look at it or move my thumb to physically check it is on. Learning to load and unload silently and carrying a rifle with an empty chamber is the safest of the lot with a Bolt action IMO.
the 60 degree bolt makes it sit in a nice spot where you can cradle it with the web of your thumb and forefinger and drop the bolt with your thumb when shouldering
it makes for a real quick snap shot when close in bush hunting without thing you are shooting at 3m away hearing the "click"
I lived in England and Scotland and hunted for there for 30 years and for 3 in the US. I never heard of half cock ever and never once thought I needed anything but the aptly named safety catch on my many rifles. When hunting alone I have always had a round in the chamber and safety catch on, which is common practice in UK. There are some bizarre “safety” practices here in NZ, but each to his own.
Oh, and does anyone think in these days of litigation that rifle manufacturers would fit unsafe safety catches to their rifles?
Everyone is getting hung up on the safety vs half bolt argument... Thats not what the post is about. If you can have both at the same time and double the level of security isn't that a good thing? Thats what the post is asking.. of which the answer has already been mentioned in that I am pretty sure the safety can be applied on a Sako 75 with the bolt in the half open position. You achieve the same thing as the tikka mod, only difference being the Sako 75 can have the bolt closed when the safety is applied where as the tikka is locked due to the hole drilled in the bolt to enable the safety to engage. (I may be slightly wrong here but that's how I remember it when I had my Sako 75).
I agree, the thread is about modifying a Sako 75 to use the safety and half open bolt together.
The OP is wanting to be as safe as possible - and also prevent the loss of the bolt. Regardless, debate has been opened around the use of the 'Half open Bolt'
What does the firearms code say about this in the 7 basic rules ? Rule 3 states: Load a firearm only when ready to fire. What this is means that anyone who loads their firearm and applies the safety and hunts like that is breaking rule 3. When I served in TF I remember asking one of the officers why we were being taught to carry our rifles with 'one up the spout and the safety on' He replied that in a civilian situation I was right and carrying rifle that way is not safe. He said further that the army accepted that this practice would result in some friendly fire deaths and injuries but that in a combat situation more soldiers would be lost when the enemy was encountered if they were not ready.
Before the seven basic rules were changed, the old 'rule 3' read as follows:'Use Half-open Bolt or Action when in a state of semi readiness' (only the leader of a party is to assume this position). This is what the Police taught and examined applicants on.
Technically, the rifle is not 'loaded' if the bolt is half open and it would then comply with rule three as it is written now
I expect a licence applicant would fail their test tomorrow if they said that rule 3 means hunt with the firearm loaded and safety on
Fair points, but it seems to me that there are a number of what would be called unusual safety practices going on as a result of issues with rifles from the first half of the last century.
As an aside, when in the British Army it never crossed my mind that training and patrolling with rounds in the chamber was dangerous. There are both safety and dangerous catches on every rifle. Furthermore, the danger from enemy action was very real for many years in Northern Ireland, Iraq and Afghanistan. Not having a round in the chamber would be more dangerous than than the alternative.
Just my opinion.
Have a nice weekend.
Moa H - when do you put rounds in the magazine of your rifle (if a detachable mag when you you put the charged mag in the rifle) ??
Have you ever hunted with a semi-auto .22 (or CF for that matter)??
I load the mag when I reach the hunting area and leave the camp or vehicle 'Safety perimeter' to start hunting. If someone has a detachable mag there is going to be nothing unsafe about charging it at home and transporting it like that. If it is not in the rifle it is safe. I was taught that when using a bolt action to carry it with the mag loaded and the chamber empty. Then when expecting to take a shot chamber a round silently ( by using the fingers of the left hand wrapped around the action and gently riding the round being chambered) and move to the 'half open' bolt position. If the shot is not taken, silently return the round to the mag. I do sometimes hunt with a single shot hammer gun which is very straight forward and safe, although it would not comply with 'Rule 3'
Yes Tentman I have hunted with a semi auto - a BAR 7mm Mag and a BAR 300 Win Mag and I have used an AUG in NZTF. Personally I don't like hunting with semis as they are noisy to load or alternately must be carried with one up the spout and the safety applied, so they are inherently less safe in practice because they cannot be easily loaded and unloaded; A firearm with a round in the chamber must be less safe than a firearm with an empty chamber.
That could be the case but I don’t know.
Here in NZ I generally hunt with rounds in the mag but an empty chamber, chambering a round when I am in a watching position or close to an animal. In Europe and the US I would have a round chambered and safety on as it is generally easy country or static blinds and high seats. Difficult ground and lots of scrub make it too easy to knock a safety catch off. If I’m hunting with someone I never move around with a chambered round.
Modern safetys are more reliable than the older ones. Just like modern rifles are generally more accurate.
Mechanical safeties work in addition to the one between your ears and the one on your hand (trigger finger) and good muzzle control / awarenes.
Empty chamber as far as i am concerned allows you to develop sloppy safety habits.
If you are hunting in pairs one in front loaded safety on and one following unloaded. Happy days.
The problem (apart from safety concerns) with a hunter proceeding 'loaded safety on' is that unless about to fire the hunter is breaking rule 3 of the firearms code. Modern cars are safer than old cars but that doesn't mean we are allowed to disregard the road code. There was a recall on Remington 700's over some safety issue 3 or 4 years ago from memory so who knows if other modern rifles will develop problems over time with wear and tear.
The Remington recall is still current
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...cVdAaFPi8VXkjd
I was taught from a young age to always carry the rifle on half bolt , its been interesting over the years collecting different rifles and how they function for example some in the half bolt position if you pull the trigger the bolt slams down presumably if there was a round in the chamber it would or could fire , a couple of my latter rifles the m12 mausers have no half bolt function at all the bolt would slide open with ease , instead they have a decocker mechanism , for a start I found it a bit uncomfortable walking around with a round up the spout but I know the rifle cannot fire as the spring is not cocked I guess its the same principle as the smle but without the firing pin resting on the primer ! , im quite a fan of this system iv been told Blazer have a similar system.
This thread has caused me to do a bit of reading up on different actions. Some rifle actions are safe to carry with a round chambered and de-cock safety applied - such as Blaser. Others are not. Some actions are safe carried with the bolt in the half open position - such as M98 while others are not.
I cannot remember ever having an animal suddenly present itself where the 'hunter in front' was too slow to chamber a round and shoot but would have secured the animal had there been a round in the chamber and the safety applied. I guess that this has happened to me at some stage but I think that it is so seldom that we should not take the risks of accidental discharge or of not identifying the target properly because of an up and bang mindset. Having to quietly load the chamber once game is near adds just a little more time for a lot more safety IMO
There is a clip posted on this forum, where Robbie Tiffen does a demo with a T3 action on the half open bolt position. The bolt closes when the trigger is pulled BUT, there is insufficient power in the firing pin spring to cause the action to fire - most of the power / energy going to turn the bolt
The half bolt is definitely not anywhere near 100% safe. I remember reading about a half bolt chap who fell down a bank and ended up with the muzzle of his .308 under his chin, the bolt closed and a finger inside the trigger guard. Now you'd be kind of thinking along the lines of, "WTF do I do now?" if you had the misfortune to experience that.
I usually have the bolt half open and the safety on.
its only taken me ten years of use to notice but my sako 75 has a really easy to use safety
no wonder you guys like it so much
Saw this post. Try walking in front of your mate with a round up the spout and safety on. Scariest thing in the world.A mate had a blind mag Remington 270 which he ignited between my legs. He forgot he had a round in the chamber. Never went hunting with him again. Get some wet n dry onto your bolt and races. What is difficult about chambering a round.
I was always taught that in a group, only the lead guy was to be loaded. Occasionally when hunting with trusted friends and using my lever action I would have it loaded on half cock but that was only after being told to do so.
I did always use the half cock method but I've gone to either loaded or not. Plus treat it as loaded at all times also
I dont allow anybody who uses half cock to walk near me anymore, most of those guys ive met dont even understand the mecanics of the rifle they are using.
Greetings All,
Many, many years ago, mid 1970's if memory serves I was a Mountain Safety Council Fire arms Safety Instructor. We taught the half open bolt method to be used when close to deer. At the time use of .303 rifles was declining and new sporting rifles were becoming more common. Hunters started using a part open bolt which some incorrectly called half cock. In this position the firing mechanism is fully cocked. It only takes pressure on the bolt handle to close it and its all go. Even at the time it seemed to me that the safety on most bolt actions was significantly safer than any part open position for most Mauser derivative rifles particularly where the safety locks the striker. I sincerely doubt if any rifle manufacturer deliberately designs a part open position into their rifles. Its presence is merely accidental due to tolerances. I suggested a number of times that use of part open should be reconsidered for modern rifles but couldn't get any traction on it. Perhaps some of the instructors being twice or even three times my age had something to do with it. We also taught that only the hunter in front of a group should be half or part ready. From my experience over the years it is often the second in line that spots the deer. Think about that for a minute. Long ago I started using the safety in preference to part open on my declining hunting trips, but not on my .303's. Further loaded rifles with safety applied should only be carried when stalking and only when alone.
Regards Grandpamac.