Thread: The secondhand rifle market

Also the real bargains are to be had above what most second hand people will pay by which i mean a band roughly 1600 to 2500 and up

I'd say Stagstalkers Sako is a great deal at the moment (for example, not picking on anyone) but with a general tightening of wallets it means that there is a smaller population of people with the readies to buy a rifle say $2k and up

Meanwhile there never been so many thermal scopes sold and There have also never been so many deer since maybe the 60(?).

Originally Posted by Friwi

Meanwhile there never been so many thermal scopes sold and There have also never been so many deer since maybe the 60(?).

And the second hand market for thermals is holding up for some reason. If anything should devalue 50% at purchase its thermals/electronics. New prices coming down. New tech arriving all of the time. New is consistently cheaper/better.
Older stuff is "good enough" but only at a discounted price.

The only true reflection of 'value' comes through auction (hammer price, not after tax and 'fees') so I do appreciate that TardMe still allows rifle auctions that are live and viewable from anywhere in the world.

Keep in mind that someone might pay over the odds for a quirk that few others spot or appreciate. Such as a certain serial number or first/last year of production etc.

Howa barrel quality gone to shit a while back. Suspect the steel they are using is sub par (owner of a couple).

New Sako is Tikka in different clothes with less utility. S20 and Sako90 are nothing special. Mount choices are usually worse and more expensive. Old Sako (L series especially) are getting thin on the ground and sellers usually want too much money for a rifle which is in poor condition and not particularly desirable. A few Finnwolf left in the UK but never seen one in person let alone for sale.

T3 actions all quite broken in by now unless it was a safe queen. I've seen more rifles scrapped due to no/lack of maintenance (owner stupidity). Like leaving silencer on the end of the barrel long after firing, never stripping the bolt or greasing the locking lugs. Personally avoid the T3 as they have smaller ejection ports and some lack the 'CTR cut' that is present on all T3x.

T3x are good rifle but overpriced, especially in the UK. This is a rifle that can be obtained for $550ish on sale/special in the USA and sells new for around £1,500+ in the UK!

GMK (importer) is having a laugh as usual and Beretta is no doubt responsible too.

The American rifled (Ruger, Remington, Savage etc) either have great or terrible resale value. A mint Remington Sendero or Savage FT-R will still be over £1k as the attributes and greater level of finish are recognised. Ruger American never took off here despite US popularity. Priced too high and no brand recognition, despite having some features common to a Sako/T3 that make them desirable (3 lug bolt with replaceable handle, some good aftermarket stocks available).

Originally Posted by chainsaw

^^^ This is bang on. 10 shot groups are a good reflection of precision of “ the shooting platform “ that includes the shooter, rifle, ammunition, optics, bipod etc.

I’d say most people can’t shoot a 10 shot 1 MOA group with their hunting rifles and that’s a tough pill to swallow for them regardless of whether it’s the gun or the shooter. That’s why no matter how many times gimp mentions it lots of people still only talk about their three shot (cherrypicked) cloverleafs’. This is why people rarely (from what I’ve seen) post more than three shot groups when they’re selling their rifles.

Originally Posted by camenzie

I’d say most people can’t shoot a 10 shot 1 MOA group with their hunting rifles and that’s a tough pill to swallow for them regardless of whether it’s the gun or the shooter. That’s why no matter how many times gimp mentions it lots of people still only talk about their three shot (cherrypicked) cloverleafs’. This is why people rarely (from what I’ve seen) post more than three shot groups when they’re selling their rifles.

More like most rifles won't do it, and when you put people behind a genuinely precise rifle the "shooter error" disappears mysteriously, but never mind, people are slowly catching on and I just have to treat claims of precision without real evidence as unreliable.



Interestingly while it's a buyer's market to some degree, the expected price floor from sellers still seems too high to me in many cases but there are still bargains to be found if you're patient

So if I was selling my 223 Tikka and used this 20 shot group as a vouch for its accuracy what would buyers think? Would it be more or less persuasive than a 3 shot clover leaf?

Originally Posted by Tahr

So if I was selling my 223 Tikka and used this 20 shot group as a vouch for its accuracy what would buyers think? Would it be more or less persuasive than a 3 shot clover leaf?

Attachment 286141

For me yes gives a more realistic expectation.

I always thought posting groups as pointless as we all tend to "cherry pick" the best ones, and for all anyone knows they could have been shot at 10 yards......human nature being what it it these days sadly

Originally Posted by gimp

More like most rifles won't do it, and when you put people behind a genuinely precise rifle the "shooter error" disappears mysteriously, but never mind, people are slowly catching on and I just have to treat claims of precision without real evidence as unreliable.



Interestingly while it's a buyer's market to some degree, the expected price floor from sellers still seems too high to me in many cases but there are still bargains to be found if you're patient

The classic "rifle shoots better than me"

Originally Posted by Tahr

So if I was selling my 223 Tikka and used this 20 shot group as a vouch for its accuracy what would buyers think? Would it be more or less persuasive than a 3 shot clover leaf?

Attachment 286141

If I trust that the seller has integrity, this tells me a lot more than a 3 shot cloverleaf.

If I don't trust that the seller has integrity, neither tells me anything, and I should avoid the purchase

Originally Posted by rockland

I have no faith whatsoever in the security of the register. I will sign up when I have to, and not before.

Made sure my gear was in order and would see me through a few years. The gunshops did very well out of me then, and I continue to buy clothing, knives, packs, cleaning stuff etc.

What do you gain by waiting?

Originally Posted by Longrun

What do you gain by waiting?

what do you gain by not?

What percentage of shooters actually need a rifle that puts 10,20,or 30 shots under an inch at a hundred, verses one that puts 3 shots in an inch at a hundred, as long as the three are in the same place the last three were?

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

What percentage of shooters actually need a rifle that puts 10,20,or 30 shots under an inch at a hundred, verses one that puts 3 shots in an inch at a hundred, as long as the three are in the same place the last three were?

Very few.

the whole 10/20 shot group thing is 90% bullshit based on some people watching a youtube video and now believing they understand statistics.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

What percentage of shooters actually need a rifle that puts 10,20,or 30 shots under an inch at a hundred, verses one that puts 3 shots in an inch at a hundred, as long as the three are in the same place the last three were?

Very few hunters require a genuine sub-moa rifle.

Many sellers state that the rifle they are selling performs this way.

Very few sellers are providing meaningful information that allows the purchaser to determine whether the statement is remotely true.