Thread: Tikka T3/T3X Facts versus Fantasies

Over the years I've owned a few Tikka's, my first centrefire in 1979 was an LSA-55 in 308, and it shot very well. Since then there have been a couple more of the T3 type, all moved on for various reasons, but I do tend to keep anything particularlyaccurate, I recall a 6.5x55 and a 243. I see a heap of them at the range, usually going quite nicely and pleasing their owners.

However there is the not infrequent occurrence of a less than satisfactory Tikka, and it usually gives its owner a real head scratch, they just can't believe that a Tikka might not shoot bugholes. Often these folks go away very disappointed and not wanting to believe they might have been misled.

With my recent testing of "3 Identical Factory rifles" - all 223 Howa's I've been doing quite a bit of trading, and was able to pick up a reasonably priced T3X "Elite" model with 1:8 20" barrel in 223 to add to the mix. This rifle had a round count of "about 400" so was pretty fresh. I mounted a test scope, a reliable Athlon 4.5-27 and headed to the range. Here is the first target shot after zeroing it.

Not too bad, with the exception of the top left this is all factory ammo:



10 shot groups of 1.45, 1.31 and 2.07 MOA, apart from the last one that's about as good as I see.

However we moved onto the "heavies" and things went a bit of the normally accepted Tikka song-sheet:



Apart from the 60gn Hornardy V-max these are a very poor showing, I had every expectation that a 1:8 Tikka should shoot quality projectiles like Hornardy 73 ELDMs and Sierra 77 TMKs well but . . . Once a group looks like it's going to exceed 2 MOA I stop shooting, it's not going to get any smaller, and these simply weren't worth measuring.

I was a bit horrified by these results so had a look with my cheap borescope. The barrel looked nice, no garks or rough machining, very minimal copper fouling. But it had a very nasty looking carbon ring, which I removed with a thorough clean. Bear in mind that the 0.7 MOA group was shot before it was cleaned.

I took it back to the range today, conditions were perfect. I felt I was shooting well (other groups bear this out) and proceeded to shoot this target




The factory Fiocchi 50gn EPN (supposedly a Hornardy V-Max) shot very nicely at 1.05 MOA but the Hornardy 75s, not so much, way over 2.0 MOA. The bottom right group was a fouling group and is Fiocchi 55 g, there are 5 there, not too bad.

Can anyone see the issue here? This to me is a very fussy barrel, its acceptable with just a few projectiles, unless a guy tests quite widely he's going to be disappointed at best.

And just in case you think I'm down on Tikka's , I'm not, it's just the unjustified claims that piss me off. For shits and giggles here are two 10 shot groups shot with my T3 in 270 . . .

hi have you ever had a Tikka t3x inn 222 I got one off here couple years ago only shot it with reloads from previouse rifles I must say it shoots very well

A lot of "it shoots well" is in how it's measured. Decent 3 round groups can be shot with just about any rifle (not too many manufacturers go beyond 3 f9r a very good reason) and are fine if you are hunting at modest ranges.

However get past about 250M and both the precision of the rifle (how well it groups) and the zero obtained from 3 shots start to fall apart, by the time you get to 400M it's essential to have a rock solid zero and fully understand the dispersion of your rifle if you want to obtain a high percentage of hits (the ethical hunter thing) and in my opinion that comes from at least 10 shot groups ( and 10 is a minimum, not the ideal).

Can anyone see the issue here? This to me is a very fussy barrel, its acceptable with just a few projectiles, unless a guy tests quite widely he's going to be disappointed at best.

Is there an issue to be noted ? I would say what you found is pretty standard with factory, off the shelf rifles, Tikkas or otherwise and even some of the supposedly upmarket and more expensive brands. There's probably others but one make / model I note in online comments that does consistently giving great accuracy from new is Blasers, like the R8. I think generally Sakos used to be but don't seem to be so much now, going from online commentary at least. On the budget side of the scale I personally would look hard at Ruger American rifles for a factory rifle that's likely to be accurate. I have several Tikkas and like them. All shot well from new and only one, in 300 WM just wouldn't shoot accurately, no matter what I tried. Eventually I replaced the factory barrel with a True Flite and voila !, it was transformed.
I have a friend who likes buying rifles for short term tenure. He sets them up to shoot nicely, maybe does a hunting season then trades or sells for another rifle of either different make or calibre. He shoots only factory ammo and every time he acquires a new rifle he buys maybe 6 different packs of non-matching ammo and heads to the range to find which shoots best. I see pics of all his targets which are surprisingly similar to yours. Frequently he finds one pack of ammo gives great groups like your 270 groups while the rest produce groups just like your disappointing 223 ones. Since I've known him this has been the pattern for at least 20 - 25 rifles. His situation kinda shows me that anyone acquiring a new, off the shelf rifle should be prepared for wide ammo testing if necessary to find the combo producing best results.
I guess some rifles only perform with particular bullets. I have an old Ruger M77 Mk1 308W with a worn barrel. It never was a great shooter but is worse now. I don't use it much at all but the last tme I took it out trying a few different bullets it shot horribly with all except one of the Nosler Ballistic Tips which while not outstanding was good enough for hunting.
I have been lucky with all my other rifles. They all shoot well to very well with several different bullets. All my ammo is handloaded.

Please post two pictures of the muzzle and crown from your borescope - one 180deg opposite. I bet it is poor to shoot the long heavies like that, but to shoot very short projectiles ok.

Haven't owned a T3 in .223. I'm onto my second one in 6.5 Creedmoor. 1st was a CTR in a KRG chassis. It shot bug holes by the old school measure of accuracy. My latest one is a T3 Lite, chopped to 18". Only fired one group with it so far, a 13 rounder after making initial adjustments. This is with Hornady Precision Hunter 143gr ELDX that came with the rifle. I'll use this till the ammo is expended, then do some real accuracy testing when I handload.

My brand new Howa 270... I fired 11 shots to break it in and zero it. Two to walk it into desired impact area. Then next nine went into wee circle like group ABOUT an inch.... Great but big deal...three were rem coreloct,three were highland also 130grn and last three were Winchester 150s..... Job done,no need to fire more. Next two rounds killed two deer.

Originally Posted by bluecod357

hi have you ever had a Tikka t3x inn 222 I got one off here couple years ago only shot it with reloads from previouse rifles I must say it shoots very well

Don't want to sell it....?

I've had similar results with my tikka t3x 223 1:8 aswell

Suspect the Yank factory loads with the heavy bullets are AR15 focused. Get a round loaded with the bullet just off the lands and crank the pressure up. Group should tighten up nice.

Sell it. Second hand Tikka"s go for more than new ones

Had a few in my hands and I have yet to see a bad one. Heard about rare bad eggs and some Tikka have terrible machining mark from reamer, some will still shoot amazing and you will never know until you borescope it

Last one to date: 300wsm lite fluted. 10 shot pressure ladder without much cooling. 0.3gn interval. Two different powders.


Rifle grouping well is satisfying yet I’m more interested having good sd and 1st cold bore shot poi consistency

Greetings All,
My 8" twist T3X Lite shoots the 69 grain Sierra HPTBT very well in spite of a basic scope, sub MoA at 110 metres.
GPM.

To bring a bit of water to your mill, from time to time I measure the runout of tikka factory chambers . The beginning of the bore is indicated dead true in the lathe then I proceed to measure the runout of the chamber.
This week I measured a 223 tikka barrel at 0.06mm.
I have seen worse in the past at 0.20mm on a similar tikka barrel.

The worst ever was an old pitted Brno barrel in 223 with a chamber runout of about 1.5mm. That was still shooting under 2moa at 100m with factory ammo.
So my point is that a slight runout does not mean that you won’t get acceptable results on target, but you can’t exploit the full capacity of your barrel if you start with a chamber which is not dead straight.

Buying and using a factory rifle, some improvements can be sometime be gained with a bedding, a recrown, and finding the right load / ammo that the barrel likes. But unfortunately you have to do with whatever condition of the bore / chamber you have .

Originally Posted by caberslash

Suspect the Yank factory loads with the heavy bullets are AR15 focused. Get a round loaded with the bullet just off the lands and crank the pressure up. Group should tighten up nice.

Too long for the standard T3 mag.