Thread: Is it time to leave the 27 gang?

What a lot of cock pulling about recoil impulses. I have owned three 270's and shot plenty of others. The worst recoil by far was a T3. It is down to rifle weight, stock MATERIAL as well as design. You blokes will have Sir Issac Newton turning in his grave with that non-physics BS .
My pet 270 is a 700 with a Kevlar filled Bell and Carlson stock and thick standard recoil pad. We all know that kevlar absorbs / dissipates / slows shock waves. Anyone can fire that gun. It is quite a light gun. A friends son shot two pigs and a possum with it one evening and he was only 10 at the time.
Everyone knows that those hard ugly factory T3 stocks only use is for staking roses, why would anyone even consider using one on a gun ??.
You cant have velocity + projectile weight without an equal and opposite force - recoil

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

What a lot of cock pulling about recoil impulses. I have owned three 270's and shot plenty of others. The worst recoil by far was a T3. It is down to rifle weight, stock MATERIAL as well as design. You blokes will have Sir Issac Newton turning in his grave with that non-physics BS .
My pet 270 is a 700 with a Kevlar filled Bell and Carlson stock and thick standard recoil pad. We all know that kevlar absorbs / dissipates / slows shock waves. Anyone can fire that gun. It is quite a light gun. A friends son shot two pigs and a possum with it one evening and he was only 10 at the time.
Everyone knows that those hard ugly factory T3 stocks only use is for staking roses, why would anyone even consider using one on a gun ??.
You cant have velocity + projectile weight without an equal and opposite force - recoil

Interesting comments about the T3 stock. I’ve always rated them pretty highly as far as cheap polymer stocks go, they tend to be more rigid than most and fit the average person well enough. The recoil pad is no limbsaver but I’ve shot worse.

But hey maybe you’re right, maybe they are a shit design for the more powerful cartridges. The theory fits with my particular experience, that thing kicked like a mule! More than any 270 had any right to

Its hard to imagine a Kevlar stock compressing enough to make a difference to felt recoil...the Kevlar fibres are bound by hard epoxies and have to be more rigid than the plastic/fibre reinforced Tikka synthetic stock (they are really fibre dense and that's why they are relatively rigid).
So surely its about the behaviour of a straight stock as opposed to having some drop to the butt that directs recoil upwards? (muzzle jump)
I'm genuinely interested because I'm contemplating a 270 and I'm messing around building composite stocks.

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Its hard to imagine a Kevlar stock compressing enough to make a difference to felt recoil...the Kevlar fibres are bound by hard epoxies and have to be more rigid than the plastic/fibre reinforced Tikka synthetic stock (they are really fibre dense and that's why they are relatively rigid).
So surely its about the behaviour of a straight stock as opposed to having some drop to the butt that directs recoil upwards? (muzzle jump)
I'm genuinely interested because I'm contemplating a 270 and I'm messing around building composite stocks.

@Fisherman
The Kevlar filling the action inlet is quite soft. I was concerned that the recoil lug would in time cause it to disintegrate around that area, so bedded it as well as the normal 50mm up the barrel channel. Is it not possible that the Kevlar is absorbing shock ?. After all the recoil lug is transferring recoil to the stock via the Kevlar fill. The But of the stock is also Kevlar filled so that the recoil pad sits on and is supported by Kevlar, not just the edges of the pad.
I have always thought that it would be an interesting experiment to fill the But section of a T3 stock with Gorilla Grip glue or Ramset expanding foam - both are polyurethane - with enough to have it foam out proud of the But when cured and then trim it back to be slightly proud, say 3mm so that the recoil pad sat onto the foam and screwed down with some pressure. A cheap experiment with minimal dicking around.

Originally Posted by 7.62

Interesting comments about the T3 stock. I’ve always rated them pretty highly as far as cheap polymer stocks go, they tend to be more rigid than most and fit the average person well enough. The recoil pad is no limbsaver but I’ve shot worse.

But hey maybe you’re right, maybe they are a shit design for the more powerful cartridges. The theory fits with my particular experience, that thing kicked like a mule! More than any 270 had any right to

It's the shape of the stock and Recoil pad that makes the difference. The old t3 Recoil pad is hard rubber, also the comb is very low so I find it sits a bit low on my shoulder pocket with proper eye alignment.

As far as rigidity, the t3 stock is about the best of the full plastic stocks. There isn't enough compression in stock material between polymer and kevlar/glass/carbon fiber to make a noticeable difference in felt recoil. You need to be able to lengthen the recoil impulse to make a change in peak force. a mil or 2 of stock deflection isn't going to make a difference

Originally Posted by Nick-D

It's the shape of the stock and Recoil pad that makes the difference. The old t3 Recoil pad is hard rubber, also the comb is very low so I find it sits a bit low on my shoulder pocket with proper eye alignment.

As far as rigidity, the t3 stock is about the best of the full plastic stocks. There isn't enough compression in stock material between polymer and kevlar/glass/carbon fiber to make a noticeable difference in felt recoil. You need to be able to lengthen the recoil impulse to make a change in peak force. a mil or 2 of stock deflection isn't going to make a difference

Interesting...the T3 recoil pad is smaller than anything else I have measured (small sample) and the comb is way to low for me...I need to do some comparisons with other stock brands.

Had a bit of a google on stocks and there is a youtube film comparing hardwood stocks with plastic and measuring the recoil impulse at the Butt. The plastic stock had more recoil. This was with a shotgun where the stocks were changed over and weight added to bring the gun to same weight.
There are also articles about guys filling their T3 stocks with Urethane foam to stop the hollow sound and also to reduce recoil

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Had a bit of a google on stocks and there is a youtube film comparing hardwood stocks with plastic and measuring the recoil impulse at the Butt. The plastic stock had more recoil. This was with a shotgun where the stocks were changed over and weight added to bring the gun to same weight.
There are also articles about guys filling their T3 stocks with Urethane foam to stop the hollow sound and also to reduce recoil

Composite bike manufacturers seem to concern themselves with flexibility in parts of their frames as much as rigidity in other areas. Massively technical stuff that I haven't begun to get my head around. My daughter is in the sprint kayak K4 going to the Tokyo Olympics and some pretty special technology has gone into the manufacture of their kayaks to achieve maximum rigidity...and its a two edge sword because the girls can feel things a more flexible boat hides...mostly the mistakes...

Originally Posted by Fisherman

Interesting...the T3 recoil pad is smaller than anything else I have measured (small sample) and the comb is way to low for me...I need to do some comparisons with other stock brands.

That would definatley contribute to felt Recoil, same force applied over a smaller area