Thread: Are we seeing a shift to smaller calibres and lighter bullets?

simple economics.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Left field question, how big a driver toward smaller calibres of late has been the cost (and availability perhaps) of components? Loading for 223, say on average 25 gn of powder or thereabouts, compared to say 308W on average around 45gn. So roughly twice the number of loads from the tub. Worst case a third more loads. Then small rifle primers were noticeable lower priced, and more available iirc while non-premium 223 brass like ADI you could barely give away. Plenty suitable for most of our requirements. For someone on a budget wanting to shoot a lot it became (is) quite compelling. No?

That's around 50% of the appeal of moving to a .223 recently. My theory is the best bang for buck (excuse the pun), with regards to improving your shooting, is to shoot more. 500 plus rounds out of a kg of powder is a lot of range time. Even factory 223 ammo can still be had for $30/box at the budget end.

Funnily enough I bought the .223 way back when I was shooting a lot of wallabies on regular basis,the mighty 270 sure is emphatic on them but hard on ears,shoulder and pocket by comparison...before suppressors were a thing.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

I've started preparing some once fired Lapua .243 brass for an experiment.

Talking of experiments, the rifle I'm keen to hear more about is @Kiwi Greg 's 6mm CM with a crazy fast Hammer copper bullet. Seems like a pretty good example.

It has a 22" Criterion 1-7.5 barrel shooting the Hammer 69 grain Absolute Hammer projectiles at around 3900 fps

Sighted in a 215 yards (200m) is only 6" low at 350 yards so its a perfect point & shoot thermal rifle

I built it early 2023 & have harvested countless animals with it, next to no recoil so you can easily see the spot the shot, reasonably accurate+ & pretty quiet to boot

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

It has a 22" Criterion 1-7.5 barrel shooting the Hammer 69 grain Absolute Hammer projectiles at around 3900 fps

Sighted in a 215 yards (200m) is only 6" low at 350 yards so its a perfect point & shoot thermal rifle

I built it early 2023 & have harvested countless animals with it, next to no recoil so you can easily see the spot the shot, reasonably accurate+ & pretty quiet to boot

Very interesting. Those Absolute Hammers are quite something. The secret ingredient maybe. I should be able to get that projectile going at a similar velocity in the 1:10” .243 according to the blurb.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Very interesting. Those Absolute Hammers are quite something. The secret ingredient maybe. I should be able to get that projectile going at a similar velocity in the 1:10” .243 according to the blurb.

The 76gr absolute hunters in my 20” 22 creed are 3550fps . I’m told I could get more with a fizzy powder but I’m happy at that.

A question on small caliber, what cartridges are considered barrel burners? Smaller calibers cannot handle as much of a charge or you can wear out the barrel fast.

Originally Posted by Old_School

A question on small caliber, what cartridges are considered barrel burners? Smaller calibers cannot handle as much of a charge or you can wear out the barrel fast.

This. How long would a barrel last firing 3750/3990 fps?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Old_School

A question on small caliber, what cartridges are considered barrel burners? Smaller calibers cannot handle as much of a charge or you can wear out the barrel fast.

25-06, 22-250 shorter life especially if longer shot strings. I like having a 3- shot mag in my 22-250.
222, 223 longer life.

Reasonably direct relationship I suspect to amount of powder burned relative to size of throat. The throat burns typically out before the bore is buggered.

Just back from a weekend goat shoot - used my 6mm ARC running 103 eld-x at 2,600 from a Howa mini. An absolute cracker. Dead accurate, First shot at 230m, dropped it. 2nd shot at 245m, same again. No recoil.

Previously used a Howa mini 7.62x39, the 6ARC is just another level.

Originally Posted by Crusty

Just back from a weekend goat shoot - used my 6mm ARC running 103 eld-x at 2,600 from a Howa mini. An absolute cracker. Dead accurate, First shot at 230m, dropped it. 2nd shot at 245m, same again. No recoil.

Previously used a Howa mini 7.62x39, the 6ARC is just another level.

The 6mm ARC has been a real sleeper of cartridge I reckon, I had a Howa mini Grendel but it was a no brainer to rebarrel to 6mm ARC when it was first announced. It does a great job impersonating a 22-250/243 with the added benefit of a fast twist for throwing high BC easily out to 500m with not a lot of recoil. My thermal has pretty much been glued to my 6mm ARC for almost a year and with a 65gr Outer edge Mono it reaches out to 350m with bugger all hold over.

I was just contemplating this as I looked at some different projectile options for my 260. I've never really done a comparison and just ran with the heaviest longest projectile that I could. Had a look at published load data and if I compare a 143g to a 100g projectile, loaded to max speed on the Hornady website, using 10 mph wind at 90*, the 143g has 50" of drop and 13.9" of wind drift at 500. The 100g option has 40" drop and 16.3" of wind drift at the same distance. The 143g obviously has more retained energy (1374 ft-lb) vs the 100g (1059 ft-lb) but both are over the magic 1000 ft-lb number. I would think that sacrificing just over 2" of wind drift to 10" of vertical would be advantageous.

On paper and within real world hunting ranges, at least for me, the lighter faster projectiles seem to be a better option. Anyone else been down this rabbit hole or have any thoughts on why running a heavier load would be advantageous? I see the retained energy as the only real benefit but if it's surplus to requirements, would it even matter?

A couple of years back a friend did a HEAP of testing of mono projectiles..,as in hundreds of tests...interestingly in the 270w if you used 130s and 110s the 110s had advantage out to 300 yards all day long....was real mind bender that one,the bit of extra speed overcame the weight,and with monos extra speed means better opening. Yes now they have changed a bit and we have more options but the numbers don't so worth looking at it for your intended ranges... Less recoil can't hurt

Originally Posted by HuntGatherRepeat

I was just contemplating this as I looked at some different projectile options for my 260. I've never really done a comparison and just ran with the heaviest longest projectile that I could. Had a look at published load data and if I compare a 143g to a 100g projectile, loaded to max speed on the Hornady website, using 10 mph wind at 90*, the 143g has 50" of drop and 13.9" of wind drift at 500. The 100g option has 40" drop and 16.3" of wind drift at the same distance. The 143g obviously has more retained energy (1374 ft-lb) vs the 100g (1059 ft-lb) but both are over the magic 1000 ft-lb number. I would think that sacrificing just over 2" of wind drift to 10" of vertical would be advantageous.

On paper and within real world hunting ranges, at least for me, the lighter faster projectiles seem to be a better option. Anyone else been down this rabbit hole or have any thoughts on why running a heavier load would be advantageous? I see the retained energy as the only real benefit but if it's surplus to requirements, would it even matter?

Yeah stop looking at energy and look at velocity instead down range its a better indicator of whether the bulelt will expand and cause damage (obviously assuming similar constructed bullets). If your lighter bullet slows faster at some stage it will be going slower and expand less. In 223 for example theres no effective extended range i can find going from a 75 eld m to an 80 or 88 in terms of range at which it will expand. But inside 300m the 75 has more velocity and will likely outperform the others. I found the same with 140s vs 147s in the 6.5 creed.

Drop hardly matters if you range things accurately and have validated your load and confirmed a proper zero so I mostly ignore it as a consideration (extreme bc or velocity will through this out). Using mils if I sight so I am 1mil high at 300 (usually around 200m) I can use quick drop ie (range/10)-2 = my holdover. Is most normal combos 223 6.5 etc. That works within a click to 500m. For example 350 would be 1.5mils. 460 would be 2.6mils. Makes it super handy if your rangefinder doesnt have ballistics built in.

Originally Posted by HuntGatherRepeat

I was just contemplating this as I looked at some different projectile options for my 260. I've never really done a comparison and just ran with the heaviest longest projectile that I could. Had a look at published load data and if I compare a 143g to a 100g projectile, loaded to max speed on the Hornady website, using 10 mph wind at 90*, the 143g has 50" of drop and 13.9" of wind drift at 500. The 100g option has 40" drop and 16.3" of wind drift at the same distance. The 143g obviously has more retained energy (1374 ft-lb) vs the 100g (1059 ft-lb) but both are over the magic 1000 ft-lb number. I would think that sacrificing just over 2" of wind drift to 10" of vertical would be advantageous.

On paper and within real world hunting ranges, at least for me, the lighter faster projectiles seem to be a better option. Anyone else been down this rabbit hole or have any thoughts on why running a heavier load would be advantageous? I see the retained energy as the only real benefit but if it's surplus to requirements, would it even matter?

Heavier bullets typically have a higher BC so will perform better in the wind, drop less and longer distances, and retain more energry.
But for typical hunting distances (say inside 300m) it's not going to make a huge amount of distance.

The reason 270win is both an outdated POS and and excellent hunting cartridge is that the newer high BC bullets don't really exist in .277 cal, so it's over shadowed by 6.5mm and 7mm cartridges.
But at the same time the average hunter isn't shooting far enough for any of this to really matter so it's a non issue.

In your instance I wouldn't bother trying a 100gr bullet, but that's because I wouldn't want to waste time and components in load development.
I developed a bunch of different loads for my 260 and 6.5CM during covid when projectiles become hard to get, an now I'm stuck with 5 different weights and types of projectile.
If it weren't for covid I would've just stuck with 140gr and 147gr ELD-Ms and called it good.