Horizontal dispersion is almost double the vertical, poor trigger control or wind just sayin, keep on pokingQuote:
Originally Posted by McNotty
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Horizontal dispersion is almost double the vertical, poor trigger control or wind just sayin, keep on pokingQuote:
Originally Posted by McNotty
Ten shots with 77tmks, first three shots were 10mm, then it doubled in size. Interesting thing to me is that their isn't a three shot combination withing the ten that is more than a scope click away from center. So I'm not going to be more than an inch of error at max range of 400 yards.
What throws me in the whole ten shot exercise is how often the first three shots are decent...and then the group grows. Measuring accuracy properly is probably beyond me with anything but the 223. Attachment 287959
I think a lot of shooters find this, for me it's more the operator than the rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
I get excited seeing a good group in the scope and then start rushing shots and spreading them. And some days I just shoot like shit.
Same projectile as yours 77tmk from a little light Sako.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...72102da21d.jpg
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Attachment 287962
Shot with a Tikka 270, consecutively with a gap of about 10 minutes between them, one from the mound using a bipod, one from the bench using a front rest, both 10 shots sub MOA. Light very snotty rifle.
Sorry but I don't buy the "I can't concentrate for ten shots" and "I got excited and blew it " lines, again this is just a "mental crutch" letting a rifle away with poor performance or unrepeatable results.
Fine, and you would be wrong in my case anyway.. The last of the ten shots my eye went blurry...in the end I decided I had places to be and let it go. Having said that the group reflects the rifles potential as far as I can tell...I was searching for a better load with the TMKs seated right out beyond mag length. I imagine that if shooting wasn't in decent part a mental game it wouldn't be an Olympic sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
Sorry but I cannot agree with that statement, I could if the rifle was in a machine rest & being shot in a vacuumQuote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
There is a big squishy bit of organic matter holding onto & trying to control the rifle during firing, let alone the environmental conditions which in themselves can easily severely influence the group size
Heavy rifles are far easier to shoot accurately as they are less influenced by the organic matter driving them than light rifles
When I'm shooting up the range I can tell when I have "pulled" a shot, sometimes pretty badly :oh noes:
It all depends what you're trying to achieve
Possibly the most truthful post in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
Loosing concentration is a real issue for some of us shooting groups.
Shooting a small gong a couple of times at extreme long range is infinitely easier than trying to do 10 shots into a bit of paper for me .
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Both what you mention here and Brad's comments are relevant and it's useful to understand why. Eyes do get fatigued (a squishy bit factor) and barrels warm up and generate mirage (an equipment factor) and wind swirls ( an environmental factor) however I'd hope most shooters have enough "grey matter" to manage 3 variables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
One's 'headspace' is another thing again, and I agree that some days " ya just can't shoot for shit". I often take a rifle of known precision (often a 22) to the range and lay down a group or two just to validate my shooting state for the day.
Many, many years ago I had a 308 Kimber LPT that was a genuine 5 shot sub half moa rifle day in day out, I would take it to the range to validate my state of shooting as you describeQuote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
It was an amazing rifle but had to rebarrel it to a 260 so my young daughter at the time could shoot it at the original Forum long range shoots we had back then, the 155's were a little much recoil for her but that didn't stop her giving the boys a run for their money :D
I brought another one quite a few years ago now but sold it as it wasn't a patch on my first one :(
I shoot so much now I don't really need a validation rifle, on average most weekends I will fire at least 100 rounds from 5 different rifles, customers & mucking around with my own & new cartridge development
Sometimes but not often up to 3-400 if I'm really busy & motivated
I've been trying to get a load worked up for the 75 ELDM of late. Doesn't seem to shoot as well as the 73's, but adequate enough after a bit of mucking around.
The following targets are a good example of helping establish a better zero with a few more rounds - both 5 round groups had different group centres despite being the same load. On the 2nd target I aggregated all 10 shots, which I think gives a better representation of the true zero for this load (I'm hoping to stretch this load out a bit, so is helpful to know). It's also interesting to see how two groups can look quite different (i.e. shape/position) despite no changes to the load.
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Attachment 287964
Good shooting. How did you "over lay" the groups, it's a very useful technique that I haven't figured out how to do . . . Also what group analysis app is that? ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by earplay
Range Buddy app for Android. Overlaid manually so nothing fancy. Helps when you have a grid reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
Yeah. I got to use a heavy bench rest style rifle in .223 in the states. 7 shots later I had produced a 5 inch group at 600 yards. Aheavy rifle off solid rests does show how much influence the shooter has otherwise. It surprised me how easy it was to do in comparison too my hunting set up, which takes quite a lot of concentration and control to get right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
I understand stats and the point of larger groups. No argument here.
But when the helicopter actually lands I’m not so sure the 3 shot group when it is repeatable is so flawed.
Case in point. My Craig fired 6 shots with his new 22 Creedmoor to get it zeroed (pic of the last 3 shot group). I think he came two clicks down when he got home.
He walked away and within the week he has shot 4 “public land” deer between 250 and 400 yards. One shot each.
I’m sure that without touching or checking the gun he will keep doing that out to longer ranges until he gets bored with it.
I do mostly the same.
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