Thread: 303 bullets tumbling

Or....https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...0?bof=TZzA1d9w

I suspect the description a bit. There appears to be a sold out if service stamp.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Lithgow only had tooling for no 3 rifles. Some photos of the markings would sort it quickly
Std process for a quick check if the throat is to drop a bullet in the breech and push it in with a pencil or cleaning rod till it stops. Push a ramrod down the bore till it touches the bullet and mark the rod.
Tap the bullet out, close the bolt on an empty chamber and push the ramrod down till it contacts the bolt face and mark it. Subtract the length of a live round from the second measurement and d the difference is your free bore.
I had a martini Enfield once where the bullet went past the rear sight before it lodged it wasn't especially accurate at all
CAC ammo would be fine to use nowadays people get a little bit obsessed with it being "corrosive" if it was that bad the military wouldn't have used it. A patch soaked in water gets the salt out, dry and oil

I'm pretty lazy and shoot CAC ammo through my Enfields and don't always use boiling water afterwards. Have had one of them for years and no noticeable difference in barrel or how it shoots. Sweets sorts them out pretty well if I forget for a few weeks.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Its not the rebarrel that's complex. Its getting any Enfield 303B shooting at its best that is complex. Whether you rebarrel it or not. But of course it helps to start with a good barrel. What I was trying to get at was putting a new barrel on will not automatically thereof make the rifle a good shooter. You still have to set it up. True of any rifle but quite complex in a Enfield with two pieces of wood joined at the wrist. If you're not wedded to an Enfield, get a P14 which is a much more accurate design

OK, thats true, but I guess it would be a start, anything has to be better than these bullets that are tumbling!
From what ive learned, the wood has to be tight on the barrel to reduce flexing when fired or something? I believe thats why the lee enfield was fully wooded?
If thats the case, wouldnt all sporters not perform as good?

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings again @Old_School,
Welcome to the rather complicated world of .303 Lee Enfields. 50 or more years ago a .303 was a starter rifle for new hunters, often sold of as soon as a newer factory hunting rifle was purchased. As little as 5 years ago a lightly sporterised .303 with a decent barrel could be had for as little as $100.00. No more. .303 rifles are now in hot demand. Even those who have never owned or even fired one are buying and actually shooting them. Covid may have had a role in this with some stuck at home and spending too much time on the internet.
Possibly time to take stock of what you have. You have a rifle with a bore that looks decent so the first step could be trying to find a load that it will shoot. Forget factory loads for the moment. I think that you said you are a handloader so try some nice soft loads with 174 or 180 grain flat base round nose projectiles and 32 to 34 grains of AR2206H powder. You should be able to find someone in Tauranga who has any kit that you need and possibly some spare projectiles. Try cast lead. Shoot at 50 or even 25 metres to start with. If these keyhole or spray it may be time to think about the barrel. It does not have to be new or .303. A .30 calibre take out barrel rechambered for .30-40 Krag or .30-303 may be possible. I should warn you though that fiddling with old rifles is an addictive though rewarding pastime.
Regards Grandpamac.

Yes, ive learned quite a bit about them over the last week!
They were definitely a common rifle and the most common rifle that most kiwis used for deer once upon a time. Im probably going to look at a 308 for the majority of my hunting, but I still would like a .303 for the kiwi tradition more than anything. I know a fair few who have one, even if they dont use it regularly. Still good for target practice, and they are a bit of our kiwi history.

Your right about the increased demand of .303 rifles, the shops have all told me the same thing. Its quite funny, because there is/was a large number of people who said they wouldnt waste their time with one once upon a time.

Lesson learned anyway, I didnt know much about what to look for when buying one of these, and clearly some of these sellers are selling junk to naive buyers. I dont think I paid too much though, as the parts price on this is still worth at least half of what I paid.

Im pretty sure this barrel is shot, these bullets were clearly tumbling at 30 metres, but if I find the rifling is OK further down, then it might be possible to cut down the barrel as suggested and make it shorter. My friends rifle has been cut down and had it threaded for a suppressor, perhaps this is a common thing done not only to make it suit a suppressor, but make use of worn out barrels perhaps?

I dont handload (yet) but thats what I plan to do to save money on ammo.

Originally Posted by SLR

You wont get a good full wood 303 for $800 these days. Lol the days of cheap surplus 303 rifles is well and truly over.
As for a stock of new barrels, you're talking about rifles and parts that were surplused in the 1950s, everything is gone. You cant just walk into a shop and get a new surplus 303 barrel. It just doesnt happen.

The one ive found for $800 isint actually a lee enfield, but an american version and its not 100% identical, things like the magazine are not interchangeable with a lee enfield.
Ive seen the odd wooded enfield go on trademe for under $1000, but who knows what the barrel is like on any of them. I definitely wont buy anything online anyway, I want to inspect anything in person to know what im buying. Im in no rush, so would rather wait for something to come my way thats suitable.

It's probably a no 4 marked us property and yes the magazines don't interchange

Originally Posted by Coop

I'm pretty lazy and shoot CAC ammo through my Enfields and don't always use boiling water afterwards. Have had one of them for years and no noticeable difference in barrel or how it shoots. Sweets sorts them out pretty well if I forget for a few weeks.

Spoke to a contact this week about all of this and turns out he has a few Enfields, tells me all he does after shooting CAC is pour a good amount of hot water down the barrel and oil afterwards. I suspect that the oil protects the barrel from corrosion somewhat anyway.
Either way, he has got mint guns with pristine barrels and has had no issues with corrosion.

He also put me in touch with a chap who has a whole collection of the things and nearly has one from every year they were produced! Looks like I will be able to source a barrel for this gun too, which will keep this shooting for a bit.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

It's probably a no 4 marked us property and yes the magazines don't interchange

Yes I think thats what it was.
I think I will keep a look out for an Enfield no1 mk3 if i get a fully wooded rifle.

Originally Posted by Old_School

Spoke to a contact this week about all of this and turns out he has a few Enfields, tells me all he does after shooting CAC is pour a good amount of hot water down the barrel and oil afterwards. I suspect that the oil protects the barrel from corrosion somewhat anyway.
Either way, he has got mint guns with pristine barrels and has had no issues with corrosion.

He also put me in touch with a chap who has a whole collection of the things and nearly has one from every year they were produced! Looks like I will be able to source a barrel for this gun too, which will keep this shooting for a bit.




Yes I think thats what it was.
I think I will keep a look out for an Enfield no1 mk3 if i get a fully wooded rifle.

Greetings again,
From what I have read the hot or boiling water is essential as the corrosion will continue in spite of being oiled. The boiling water is needed the same day as the rifle is fired. After the move from black powder to smokeless the problems with corrosion started. Originally this was blamed on the smokeless powder but investigation showed it was the chlorate primers. The black powder fouling did protect the barrels and was cleaned out much more frequently. The cordite propellant is also quite erosive and this is part of the reason for the long and loose throats on most Lee Enfields.
Regards Grandpamac.

first step is to try some 180grn loads..... 50% of 303s prefer the 150s the other 50% prefer the 180s 174grn was usaul loading so 180 modern makes sense and there was a 200or was it 220 grn really early on??? plenty to play around with before writing it off.if you can source a newish barrel and get it fitted cheap enough that your happy, GO FOR IT .... the russian rimmed round sits between .308 and .30/06 is another option if rebarreling with a .308 bore.... 7.62x54r think it is..the supply of milserp ammuntion for that has just about dried up too..barnaul may still have it.
as long as you can hold a 4" group...you can ethically chest shoot a deer/pig/goat to that range.... put up a plastic milk bottle of water and if you can hit it EVERYTIME you can use rifle to that range.... tumbling definately not ideal,it would probably be bail gun usable only...and marginal at that.

Originally Posted by Old_School

OK, thats true, but I guess it would be a start, anything has to be better than these bullets that are tumbling!
From what ive learned, the wood has to be tight on the barrel to reduce flexing when fired or something? I believe thats why the lee enfield was fully wooded?
If thats the case, wouldnt all sporters not perform as good?



Yes, ive learned quite a bit about them over the last week!
They were definitely a common rifle and the most common rifle that most kiwis used for deer once upon a time. Im probably going to look at a 308 for the majority of my hunting, but I still would like a .303 for the kiwi tradition more than anything. I know a fair few who have one, even if they dont use it regularly. Still good for target practice, and they are a bit of our kiwi history.

Your right about the increased demand of .303 rifles, the shops have all told me the same thing. Its quite funny, because there is/was a large number of people who said they wouldnt waste their time with one once upon a time.

Lesson learned anyway, I didnt know much about what to look for when buying one of these, and clearly some of these sellers are selling junk to naive buyers. I dont think I paid too much though, as the parts price on this is still worth at least half of what I paid.

Im pretty sure this barrel is shot, these bullets were clearly tumbling at 30 metres, but if I find the rifling is OK further down, then it might be possible to cut down the barrel as suggested and make it shorter. My friends rifle has been cut down and had it threaded for a suppressor, perhaps this is a common thing done not only to make it suit a suppressor, but make use of worn out barrels perhaps?

I dont handload (yet) but thats what I plan to do to save money on ammo.




The one ive found for $800 isint actually a lee enfield, but an american version and its not 100% identical, things like the magazine are not interchangeable with a lee enfield.
Ive seen the odd wooded enfield go on trademe for under $1000, but who knows what the barrel is like on any of them. I definitely wont buy anything online anyway, I want to inspect anything in person to know what im buying. Im in no rush, so would rather wait for something to come my way thats suitable.

Cheap .303s are still out there! I just bought a no.1 mk3* sporterised for $70! Rough wood but still has the front barrel band, bore is like a mirror and it shoots way straighter than my no.5 which I paid $800 for.
Keep an eye on trademe for honest old blokes who don't care for the way the current market is going.
If I ever sell it it's gonna be $70 again.
I'll probably keep it though hah.