Thread: Anyone a member of SSANZ or The NZ NSA?

@Happy

We would appreciate it if you did not copy material from the NSA forum and publish it elsewhere. Doing so raises privacy issues and content ownership issues for NSA and its members. You are welcome to post links to information and if people see fit, they can go and look at the material themself: but please refrain from copying and republishing.

Thanks
Richard Lincoln

Originally Posted by krewzr

@Happy

We would appreciate it if you did not copy material from the NSA forum and publish it elsewhere. Doing so raises privacy issues and content ownership issues for NSA and its members. You are welcome to post links to information and if people see fit, they can go and look at the material themself: but please refrain from copying and republishing.

Thanks
Richard Lincoln

Sorry about that NOT !!! Public domain once you post it same as this here. Same as your comments about hiding or dispossesing firearms as you may not have the correct licence or what ever to possess.
Im pretty sure if next time you fight something on these lines if someone told the court heres this off their NRA website they could accept it into the process and all form their own decisions on the comments.
What peed me off is that you talk about personal abuse in one of your comments then seems to me you go make Toby look like quite foolish in that posting . Kinda like a look at this my little coup...

If the media choose to use any thing off face book or websites when its out there its out there.
You have no disclaimer on your website about information usage that I could easily find.
End of the day I'm actually not against you or the organisation you support.
I was about to join it and support it but now Im unsure which is why I posted the statement "tell me why I should" and why I visited the site looking at stuff
and was disappointed at the maturity of the comments and the bull..

Competition to use the hardest words one can find Thanks Mikee. Kscott is a well known nay sayer and appologist of inferior intellect ...

Reeks of Old boys club old man say what..

Challenge remains change my mind. There is a place for the NRA but it needs to be absolutely without people at the top holding pissing competitions.. and in the public domain ensuring

all content can with stand any scrutineeing as to private agendas as we all know how one comment can be taken many ways as well as one suggestion.

Sorry to fellow members for possibly once again breaking no politics rules...

Originally Posted by Happy

What peed me off is that you talk about personal abuse in one of your comments then seems to me you go make Toby look like quite foolish in that posting.

Happy I don't really follow what you're saying but if I can clarify the comment quoted above.

I was not complaining about personal abuse. My point was that trying to negate the validity of a persons argument by attacking the person rather than the argument is a flawed form of debate that is usually resorted to by those who actually cannot raise a valid counter argument. Otherwise known as "shoot the messenger."

My comment about Toby was not intended to make him look foolish. I think he is very astute and has obviously thought through his feelings on this subject and arrived at the conclusion that, yes... sometimes a person cannot comply with a law because it falls outside what they can morally accept.

Kind regards
Richard Lincoln

Originally Posted by krewzr

My point was that trying to negate the validity of a persons argument by attacking the person rather than the argument is a flawed form of debate that is usually resorted to by those who actually cannot raise a valid counter argument. Otherwise known as "shoot the messenger."

And yet on your own forums I'm labelled "is a well known nay sayer and appologist (sic) of inferior intellect ..."

The NSA seems to have difficulty accepting they are simply a small, vocal, hypocritical minority.

This 'petty shit' Beavis ? Here ? Or on a closed forum where debate, reason and disagreement is accepted nor tolerated, especially if it's repeated outside the closed community. Personally I think it's a shame the openness other forums have that allow any member of the public to see discussion and viewpoints isn't tolerated on the NSA, yet god forbid anyone criticse them, because they're labelled sheeple and fools and we're one step away from Nazi Germany in the 1930's.

Your "case law" around possession goes back to how the person dispossessed the firearm by supplying it to an unlicensed person, this case doesn't outline possession at all, it outlines supply, in which he dispossessed the firearm by placing it in somebody else's possession.

We don't have any case law surrounding possession of a firearm so it would fall back on case law from other commonwealth countries for guidance, of which there are prime examples.

How would you explain going from having the firearm in your possession to not having it in your possession and it not being stored properly? Are you trying to say it would be perfectly legal for me to go dispossess myself of some firearms by throwing them in the middle of a park? Since you say storage only applies to possession. Otherwise I could throw my firearms over the back fence instead of locking them away after every time I use them.

I ask once again, why are you encouraging people to illegally bury firearms on public land rather than apply for the correct endorsements or store with another person who does have the correct endorsements so they can continue to use and enjoy their firearms?

Originally Posted by Savage1

We don't have any case law surrounding possession of a firearm so it would fall back on case law from other commonwealth countries for guidance, of which there are prime examples.

Im sorry to but you are mistaken. I have read several recent NZ cases that do deal with the issue of possession for the purposes of the Arms Act. Robertson v Police is the most prevalent authority. As I said before, the Courts of New Zealand have expressly said that the meaning of possession for the purpose of the Arms Act is particular to that Act in this country. The meaning of "possession" in the context of other NZ statutes and other jurisidictions is not applicable (thats the stated view of the NZ judiciary.)

I don't think this is worth pursuing any further. Clearly their are several individuals on here who subscribe to the view that burying a firearm will not amount to parting with possession of it (although no-one has yet been able to cite an authority for that view.) You are entitled to your opinion. Lets just leave it there.

Originally Posted by krewzr

Im sorry to but you are mistaken. I have read several recent NZ cases that do deal with the issue of possession for the purposes of the Arms Act. Robertson v Police is the most prevalent authority. As I said before, the Courts of New Zealand have expressly said that the meaning of possession for the purpose of the Arms Act is particular to that Act in this country. The meaning of "possession" in the context of other NZ statutes and other jurisidictions is not applicable (thats the stated view of the NZ judiciary.)

I don't think this is worth pursuing any further. Clearly their are several individuals on here who subscribe to the view that burying a firearm will not amount to parting with possession of it (although no-one has yet been able to cite an authority for that view.) You are entitled to your opinion. Lets just leave it there.

Are the simple questions getting a little hard to answer?

No apology needed Happy. This is not what I would consider political although there are some that may consider it "hot air"

Happy, Just to clarify I started the thread you refer to in the NSA forums. It is in the members section which as far as I am aware is not visable to Joe Public. So how you got there is anybods guess. I don't really care either way what organisation you join. I won't need to hide anything any where, I never do. I have all the appropriate endorsements / security to own/use what I do. I joined the NSA cause Colfos advise over the Stock debacle was just to roll over and comply.

I see you have a STI AR now, well if its a A cat rifle then you were able to buy it because the NSA won their case of the "Check your stock" interpretation.

Ditto all the parts now coming in for them (AR's) before that you needed special reasons.

No more from me on this.

I see you have a STI AR now, well if its a A cat rifle then you were able to buy it because the NSA won their case of the "Check your stock" interpretation.

Ditto all the parts now coming in for them (AR's) before that you needed special reasons.

No more from me on this.[/QUOTE]

Cheers Ears didnt see you write anything silly... Yes mines ACat but my safe is E just need to find some people to say great things about me now...

Originally Posted by Happy

Sorry about that NOT !!!

Reeks of Old boys club old man say what..

Challenge remains change my mind. There is a place for the NRA but it needs to be absolutely without people at the top holding pissing competitions.. and in the public domain ensuring

all content can with stand any scrutineeing as to private agendas as we all know how one comment can be taken many ways as well as one suggestion.
.

Methinks the pissing competitors aren't going to be happy, happy ... Remember, Some people a cause, some people need those contests in their lives.

The sad thing is, there probably is an issue that the wider hunting and shooting fraternity do need to deal with, but a lot of them will be less than keen to deal with 3rd year law students with too much time on their hands.



Tim

This kind of petty shit is rampant in the Kiwi hunting and shooting community

I only jumped on here to add some balance to the comments of KScott. The original discussion seemed to set the scene for a NSA v COLFO debate. I think NSA and COLFO are chalk and cheese and a comparison is pointless. Each organisation has its merits and its faults. Each also has its supporters and detractors.

What I personally hope for is that all civilian gun owners will put their efforts and resources into resisting irrational gun control laws that cannot be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. My greatest fear is that civilian gun owners will fight amoungst themselves in a blind lemmings stampede towards the sort of infringments on their rights that occurred in the UK and Australia.

So anyway... I'm a member of NSA and a financial supporter of COLFO. I think COLFO have useful role as a UN NGO for international representation of NZ civilian gun owners. NSA have a useful role keeping the domestic front lines secure. So +1 for both orgs from me.

Kind regards
Richard Lincoln

Originally Posted by Beavis

This kind of petty shit is rampant in the Kiwi hunting and shooting community

Yep based on past experiences the different shooting groups will be lining up and stepping over each to sell each other out providing they get to keep doing what they do.

Sooner all Licenced Firearms Owners wake up and stick together the better.

And Kiwi39 I think that that 3rd year law student you refer to is Richard Lincoln, the same one if I am not mistaken referred to in Police Vs Lincoln court case re the "Check your stock" thing.
NSA didn't appear till after. I could be completely wrong here though

All I was after in starting this thread was to see which NZ shooting organisations would be worth supporting to fight for our rights as NZ citizens to own firearms, and to stop this silly bullshit about semi-auto's and types of stocks etc etc.

I've joined SSANZ (I'll admit the cheap subscription to my favourite gun magazine made that an easy call) and had the full intention of joining the NSA.

But after this shitfight I'm not so sure. I want to be represented by responsible citizens who are for the safe promotion of gun ownership, shooting sports and hunting. I don't want to be represented by an organisation that has members talking about burying (what would be, restricted) guns on public land. We don't need any more bad eggs making the gun community look bad. Especially when they get caught red handed with an "us vs them" attitude and turn around and have a go at people on this forum.

We're all gun owners, and we're all in this together. We can't afford to not be together on this. I'm still going to consider the NSA... as I said we can't afford to not stick together on this, but boy this has made me a lot more skeptical about it.