So who has access to this https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/3...nge-goes-court site?
Just wondering what's going on since it's behind a paywall. Please post, thanks.
So who has access to this https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/3...nge-goes-court site?
Just wondering what's going on since it's behind a paywall. Please post, thanks.
Pdf attached.
Comments so far.
Attachment 256707
Ya gotta laugh that the councils appear to not understand what Defence Forces are all about! Been there since 1940. Greedy councils have permitted the rural area close to the range to become urbanised. What on earth did they think was going to happen?
Times change though.
Having a rifle range on ground that flat must surely expose some of the locals to a ricochet hazard?
Remember that in 1940 West Melton was right out in the sticks,which is why they put it there. Now its not ,so thats why they are having problems.
Would have been better out at Green Park or somewhere on the Port Hills? I guess that was too far out back in the day?
There is zero ricochet risk on a properly designed and maintained range, "zero danger area" ranges are very common in NZ, we shoot both pentratable and steel targets on ours.
Greetings,Quote:
Originally Posted by norsk
The flat ranges do pose a ricochet hazard. The longer ranges on flat ground with mounds every hundred yards need a huge danger area which is the reason many of them have closed. The problem is range floor strike especially where there is 4P shooting where there is a larger cone of fire. This was the reason for the demise of the Roy's Hill Range. Later ranges often shoot across gullies or with an elevated shooting point to deal with this. Noise is another issue and is a problem in many parts of the world. Some of the wonderful old ranges in the US like Creedmoor have either closed or been restricted to .22 RF only.
GPM.
Proper procedures to ensure Cone of fire is maintained means these ranges shouldn't have needed to close. Our range is dead flat. Some of the old range certifiers and thier manuals have a lot to answer for.
The latest FSA range manual has its issues but at least is a lot better than what was foisted on us before.
It's not what it seems. The army want to put a covernet on properties with 2 km of the range that we can't complain about the noise. The locals which I am one are happy with the states quo. It is the army been heavy handed telling the council what it wants. A covernet would devalue properties and the army could charge what they get up to and are been less than open about things.
Yet the the army are complaining about noise that might come from a quarry near Burnham camp.
This will probably go right over the complainants heads, but do they see the significance of the situation, in that they are submitting their complaints in the English language, not German or Japanese. Should our Defence Force, and others we stood alongside some 70-80 years ago have failed in their mission, that indeed would be the language their complaints would be being submitted in.
I would have thought that recent global events would be placing these sorts of issues front and centre to most people, but Kiwis as a people can be pretty lackadaisical in such matters.
Anywho, don't take this as my approval that our current Defence Force is in any shape whatsoever for participating in the protection of NZ interests. That ship sailed quite a long time ago.
Defence Forces make noise. Sometimes lots of it. It comes with the territory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
The locals are not complaining about the noise or the army range, it's the heavy handed attitude we are telling you, not asking, that we want to put covernet on your property.
I imagine the NZDF is looking at the long term. There may be a bunch of ' good bastards' owning the lifestyle blocks right now. But come 5 -10 years when things change and people sell, others move in and ohhh! we don't like the noise rears its head. That's when things get messy if the situation isn't written down in black and white.
yep and that is unfair............unless they were to purchase all the relevent properties at market prices....then they could do as they wished perhapsQuote:
Originally Posted by Localman
Greetings,
For a long time the NZ Government, including the Army just built things without any input from Local Government. Most of the ranges built at the time would have had no consents for either buildings or planning. The right time to put a covenant on the titles for the subdivisions would have been when the land was subdivided. Someone dropped the ball, likely the Army.
GPM.
I dont see that the army has the right to place a covenant on properties which they do not own. They should either purchase said properties, or lodge a caveat with the council that any persons purchasing the properties in the future must be made aware that there is likely to be noise, and that the range is not moving anywhere. If you don't like the noise, don't purchase this property.
Be great if you were deaf!!!
I don't think that is a goer either as it amounts to the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by tac a1
No, because it doesn't interfere with the land rights of the current owners. All it is, is a notification in essence.
Found some detail. Only new subdivisions are included but the Council has canned it anyway. I may pop its head up ant the next District Plan Review whenever that is. It appears that earlier the Army has been a little less than a good neighbour in regard to the noise so this may have left a sour taste with the locals. Seems to be working OK at the moment so why try and fix it. It looks as though most of the subdivision has already happened.
heaven prevent property values going down. The net net of it is the NZDF were there first and need to shoot. This is on the same level of moving next to the powerstation/king's arms or the airport and complaining about the noiseQuote:
Originally Posted by Localman
Yes they did build things without requiring input from local councils, it was called the Public Works Act.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
This Act was not repealed until 1992, so anything built before this did not require consents, easements, or legal titles.
(most Power Board assets were constructed under the same Act).
BB
The Army (West Melton range) has been there since 1942. Everyone else are Johnny come lately's. Especially the encroaching subdivisions. The council will have been rubbing their hands with glee at all the impending rates and reserve contributions the subdivision will have made them.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
And from having been on the inside, I can vouch that the NZDF moves at the pace of a very rotund glacier when it comes to being proactive in such matters.
Most big things should have had "designations" placed on them by the TLAs at the time District Plans were reviewed. Im far from a planning expert but a Designation covers off a lot of matters including noise. Airports etc spring to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basenjiboy
Enlighten them about the noise in Gaza.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
I made a lot of noise on that range in 1972 and over the first five months of 73. Our Army may no longer be what it once was but nonetheless we need it and it needs to use firearms to make soldiers proficient. My assessment is that we are headed into trying perhaps volatile times over the next few years and our servicemen and women will probably be called upon again to put their lives on the line for all of us. I for one would have them well trained and if that means the Army changes the way it makes use of the West Melton range then more power to its right arm and to hell with what the neighbours think.
The locals are not complaining about the noise, in fact the machine guns were firing away today, back ground noise. It's what they are not telling us that is more of a concern. Soon as they change things who knows what they might want to get up to. As said people are happy the way they operate at the moment but if they suddenly started operating 24/7 that would upset everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian 22.
I see two sides to this and can see why locasl are concerned about a change in the status quo. But I also see the flip sode of the coin. How many speedway clubs / raceways and cart clubs have set up out in the bondocks to be good neighbours and make noise far away from neighbours then have had to shut down because someone bought the noisy land cheap and developed it then decided the noise was bad for values and complained until said club was shut down or restricted?
Sound familiar...Its why Taylor swift did not perform at western springs.....(She couldnt get two shows / nights as that would put the stadiun over the number of noisy nights they are allowed in a year and one show was uneconomical)
How many people have you heard of that buy cheap properties near an airport then want the airport moved because the noise is driving values down....? I know one situation where someone bought a house next to a local dive pub cos it was a bargain then bitched and moaned until said pub was forced to close because the got annoyed with drunks late at night....Thats why it was cheap to start with....
Perhaps this is one of the few areas where the range can operate now and that they cannot move, thus need to protect what they have from being pushed out by people who buy cheap then complain about the existing neighbour lowering values when that is why they got it in the first place......
Perhaps the Amry HQ could have approached it in a better way, perhaps they could have discussed the effects of a covenant. As for the covenant lowering the value of the land argument....That is a load of .....The covenant is a notification of the noise and a statement that the buyer is aware they are getting a place near to a noisy area. If this devalues the land then it is only because the seller has not pointed that fact out already in order to get a higher price. IF the owner is not looking to sell then the lower value means a lower rates bill so there is an up side....
But @Localman I also understand your concerns about them getting the change then raising the amount of noise by making changes either in frequency or volume. And that would be unfair. Like all good media stories, they only ever publish half the facts and to give the reporter some credit, it is unlikely in my mind that either party gave 100% of the facts and presented what gave it the best light to their side....
I thiink in this case the court is where it should be sorted where both sides can present their arguments and reasons and it can be sorted out. I think the courts are better equiped to deal with the discussion than the media ever will be...
And that is it in a nutshell. The District Plan Review should sort things out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Localman
GPM.
I would suggest that if the NZDF started using the West Melton Range 24/7, then we would all have slightly more to worry about than a bit of noise.
To quote an old friend now deceased, “I reckon I have one good one left in me”. We are all the poorer for your passing Graeme.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
Also a local, just outside the 2km radius. Dont care about the machine gun noise and also enjoy seeing the military activity in the area between the RIFLE range and camp in Rolleston, it was here before we purchased land and built.Quote:
Originally Posted by Localman
BUT, the bigger picture is the fact the army is loosing too many staff due to families not wanting to do their time in the desert, so Rolleston is being turned into home base, which will see a whole lot more activity in the Selwyn district. If the army just came out and applied for Resource Consent for what they really want, the whole town of West Melton would be up in arms, so they are doing the slippery slope; 2km zone, then it will be artillery etc etc.
(The locals are pretty battle ready; quarries & chicken farms have been defeated so far)
Fuckem. The army were there first. It's a disease that is slowly strangling this once great country and our ability to do fun things anymore. It's a rural area so if you buy it..do your homework first.stay in caravan for a week or so.look at a map and see what's around,go knock on a few doors,and if you don't like what the noisy neighbours are up to...well Karen,go live in inner city triple glazed apartment. Country is country.
Quarries and chicken farms were not there in 1942:P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid_cruiser
There's a forum member who was the Range certifying officer for West Melton a wee way back. He may pop up and allay your fears that the range could be used for Artillery: to my knowledge its only certified for small arms (unsure of calibre limitation) hand grenades and bulk explosives no greater than 0.5 kgs.
Karen wouldn't have been hatched in 1942 either... Karen's didn't get listened too in 1942,they were rightly treated as whinging crazy cat ladies and they stayed away from everyone else.
The sad thing is those same Karen's that stop chook farmers from making a living then go on social media and bitch n moan about the price of eggs.
@Micky Duck, you been on the juice a bit tonight and I mean that in a good way as your above posts are a hoot 👍
I’ve seen a few Karen’s & Ken’s move out into the country and start complaining about the farm I worked on, they complained about our cows in our boundary paddock next to their property, complain about the smell of cow shit wafting through the air, farm bikes operating in early hours as we got the cows in, complain about when we ploughed up a field and there was some dust, complain about the planted maize which restricted their view and again complained when we got in contractors to cut the maize as they worked all hours of the night
We always told them, country life is different and encouraged them to go back to where they came from!
Whatawhata rifle range has the same issue with a housing development built nearby as home owners complained about that range which has been in operation since WW2
Guilty as charged.have drunk to excess ,have consumed a huge four stubbies over last three months.
The Army bang away and nothing gets said, but someone let off some fire works and all hell breaks loose on local FB.
A number of years ago the army let off an explosion which as substantially larger that any thing past or present. I was home and outside at the time and it was a biggy.( may be cloud bounced it down) any way man down the road claimed damage to this house. Don't totally be-leave it as he was the only one , but that started the anti movement plus they started a couple of large serious out of control fires all painted them in a bad light.
.5 kg sounds way to small for the size of the area , we blew up a 250lb squib up at Kiapara . And there was a small explosive range at Hobsonville , up to 1 kg . The West Melton area would be to small? for Artillery but probably big enough for light mortars?.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
To have any idea as to what the Army could do with the area , you would need to have access to current Defense Publications .
Yeah, that was just plain stupidity. Broke all the range rules of NEQ's permitted on the range and got in a power of shit for setting off 6 claymores all banked together with det cord. One was the stated max permitted. And on a cloudy day just makes it a whole lot worse. Certainly didn't help their reputation for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Localman
Cloud makes things really bad, as it reflects the explosive shock wave back to the ground, bounces off, hits the cloud, bounces down etc etc etc.
We blew up a 5 tonne WWII aerial bomb dropped on Japanese warships hiding up the Mekong river. It missed and buried itself in the clay banks of the Mekong, only to turn up 60 years later in a clay pit for a brick making plant on the outskirts of Phnom Pehn. We set it off 18 km away from the capital, in a shallow hole. No one down town heard a thing.
A fortnight later we had a weird heat/cloud inversion thing happen. The team were setting off tiny basic charges, about the size of a couple of bic lighters. 70 guys on the basic deminers course, so 70 lots of these tiny charges going off sporadically. But the sound bounced off the clouds, all the 18km back into town and caused pandemonium, as it sounded just like mortars being fired. 5 tonne vs 50 grams. Sound can do weird things.
Years ago back when I did the Easter bunny hunt out of Alex, one of the farmers was giving us the show around.
Went past the woodshed and yards and across the road was a small house originally used by the workers. Since sold off to some townies from somewhere as a holiday home. And they were there for Easter.
Commented to the farmer basically that we wouldn't shoot any bunnies around the yards across the track. You know being courteous and safe and all that.
It was a curt "bugger them, they are in the country now and better get used to it".
In saying that we still didn't even spotlight close to their house because it wasn't really kosher to us
