First shots from my new rifle. Ammo choice?

Well I got to the range this evening with my new rifle to sight it in. 2 shots at 50m to sight it in then I did the following 2 5-shot groups with 2 types of ammunition.

The first group was shot over around 30 minutes, and the second group over 10 minutes. All in all 12 shots over 45 minutes.

Pretty happy with it considering I've never shot the rifle before, never shot from a bench, and apart from the 2 rounds I fired on the weekend while helping at a range day I've never shot a centerfire before, and my last rimfire was when I was 12.

My question is, would that second group likely have been tighter, and the 5th shot not a flier if I'd taken them over half an hour like the first group instead of over 10 minutes (range was closing)? I think the rifle might like the second group ammo better but I'm new to this so it's hard to tell, the group sizes are so similar. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d606b34818.jpg

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

Id say you changed something in the way you held the rifle for the 3 shots on the right, maybe held it tighter or anticipating the recoil

The green group is the first group. The two shots to the left were when I switched from right handed to left handed. The second group (blue) was all left handed. All in all shooting from the bench with either hand was pretty uncomfortable I have to say. How do people do it?

you shouldnt be swapping shoulders when you are trying to track down accuraccy then trying to read into whats happening

30 minutes is a long time to take 5 shots over, lots of little things can change in that time
just let it cool between the groups for 10ish minutes if you feel patient
a 5 shot group will take at most normally around 2-3 minutes
is this a hunting rifle or a target orientated set up?

Shooting off a bench is easy so long as you have a bipod or a decent bag for the forend. If its a hunting set up, then use a bag. A sleeping bag stuffed in to its stuff sack works good, or a daypack filled with parka and spare clothes etc. And support the butt of the rifle on a small bag or roll of some sort. The Norma group looks like it has promise, but dont change position half way through the process. eliminate all your variables so you have some solid data to come and go on. I'd be picking a good day, go back to the range, getting yourself comfortable, and shooting a 5 shot group in about 2-3 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Bill999

you shouldnt be swapping shoulders when you are trying to track down accuraccy then trying to read into whats happening

30 minutes is a long time to take 5 shots over, lots of little things can change in that time
just let it cool between the groups for 10ish minutes if you feel patient
a 5 shot group will take at most normally around 2-3 minutes
is this a hunting rifle or a target orientated set up?

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It's a hunting setup, likely bush hunting mostly with some stuff on the tops.
To be honest it took me ages to get the rifle steady on the wooden rest with a sandbag at the rear which is why it took so long. Then I'd get uncomfortable and move which would shift everything.

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Originally Posted by Husky1600

Shooting off a bench is easy so long as you have a bipod or a decent bag for the forend. If its a hunting set up, then use a bag. A sleeping bag stuffed in to its stuff sack works good, or a daypack filled with parka and spare clothes etc. And support the butt of the rifle on a small bag or roll of some sort. The Norma group looks like it has promise, but dont change position half way through the process. eliminate all your variables so you have some solid data to come and go on. I'd be picking a good day, go back to the range, getting yourself comfortable, and shooting a 5 shot group in about 2-3 minutes.

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Bag setup sounds good, thanks. Why do you pick the Norma group? I thought the Hornady looked better, apart from the 5th shot.

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Originally Posted by Eat Meater

It's a hunting setup, likely bush hunting mostly with some stuff on the tops.
To be honest it took me ages to get the rifle steady on the wooden rest with a sandbag at the rear which is why it took so long. Then I'd get uncomfortable and move which would shift everything.

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If you can use what you plan to take hunting with you like your back pack or jacket its good practice
I often use my pack or oilskin rolled up because thats whats on hand

Id say you are getting unconfortable because you are taking too long to take the shot, 5 groups in the same time span would give us a lot more data to go on, all shot in the same position from the same eye and shoulder
think about all the forces touching the rifle and make them the same each time, IE shoulder pressure and position, wrist grip and how much you are squeezing and what you are doing all needs to stay the same to get usefull data
think boring robot that does the same thing each time, unless you find something you are doing wrong just be repeditive and dont take any longer than 30 seconds for each shot

Just be aware that the point of impact while shooting over a rest (pack, sleeping bag) will be different if you are shooting while standing or kneeling.

Just for a bit of context, this is a 5 shot group I shot the other day with factory ammo. Would have been 30-45 seconds at the most. Once I’m comfortable I just shoot, no mucking around for any length of time. But I also normally only bother with 3 shots for my hunting rifles.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fb60f95759.jpg


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I think in that case I should focus on shooting standing braced against a tree since that's my most likely scenario. And prone across a bag since that's the next most likely, and compare those groups.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

First you have to see if your rifle shoots, and if you can shoot. Do that either prone or off a bench cos thats the most stable position. Then once you have your rifle sighted, and ammo sorted, and you've sent a good number of shots down range at 100 - 250, then start practising at positional such as standing. Any shots taken standing or kneeling are gonna be a lot closer than what you've sighted in your rifle for so a little variance because of your position aint gonna matter much.

the norma ammo showed a nice little group for the 3 you fired right handed, and about right elevation etc. The 2 you shot left handed dont count cos you changed your position.

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Originally Posted by Eat Meater

I think in that case I should focus on shooting standing braced against a tree since that's my most likely scenario. And prone across a bag since that's the next most likely, and compare those groups.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

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thats my favorite way to shoot too

If your shooting position is uncomfortable, that needs fixing before you start firing or you will never get past sighted in. Once you do this the rest will follow.
If you struggle there as in the above post go to prone assuming you can get comfy there. Alternatively get it locked in at 100 m and practice from your field (standing supported by post or tree) positions. 4 inch groups @ 100 meters in that situation will be just fine. Bipods on hard benches can jump around and give poor results. Put a rubber mat under them ...good shooting.

bottom line is ...thats a VERY dead deer.....
think about your hunting...what range you expect to be shooting...bush hunting means 75 yards is a long shot...occasional 300 yard shot.... tops means 200-400 is normal....
1'' group will do all of that.
get steady,fire a shot,then 2 follow ups quickly..THAT is as close to hunting senario as you will get..... direct from nosler manual.....
now you swapped shoulders why??? sore from recoil perhaps...... you need rifle in tight to shoulder on target,close eyes for 10 seconds,open eyes.are you still on target???if not you are muscling rifle into position,so change your position,sandbags,pillow,sleeping bag till it stays closer to the bull.

What caliber is your riffle?

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

What caliber is your riffle?

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6.5 creedmoor - its normal for different ammo/projectiles to shoot to different spots in your case 130gr vs 143gr if you try 120gr it wioll be different again just sight it in for whatever ammo you intend to use, when you change sight in and go again

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

bottom line is ...thats a VERY dead deer.....
think about your hunting...what range you expect to be shooting...bush hunting means 75 yards is a long shot...occasional 300 yard shot.... tops means 200-400 is normal....
1'' group will do all of that.
get steady,fire a shot,then 2 follow ups quickly..THAT is as close to hunting senario as you will get..... direct from nosler manual.....
now you swapped shoulders why??? sore from recoil perhaps...... you need rifle in tight to shoulder on target,close eyes for 10 seconds,open eyes.are you still on target???if not you are muscling rifle into position,so change your position,sandbags,pillow,sleeping bag till it stays closer to the bull.

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I swapped because i couldn't get comfortable, which meant I wasn't holding the rifle well and my suppressed 6.5 CM kicked me like the .44 buffalo gun I shot on the weekend. My right eye is better and it's a RH rifle. Swapped to LH because it felt more comfortable on the bench and I could hold the rifle better.

The truth of the matter is I can't afford to put 100 shots down range to get things perfect, not with those 2 cartridges ($5 a shot), so I doubt I'll be shooting at ranges over 100m until I get more real world experience. Still, like you said Micky the deer was dead based on current accuracy.

Cheers for the input folks. While it's no substitute for experience, it's helping me to figure things out faster and is much appreciated.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

More to the point you can’t be swapping positions and hoping to draw meaningful data

Play around when you are done but nothing useful will come from shooting groups from different positions and the way the gun is held and recoils. It all plays a i part on how bullets land on the target end
It’s pretty impressive how close they are all things considered so your rifle seems very consistent


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Originally Posted by Bill999

More to the point you can’t be swapping positions and hoping to draw meaningful data

Play around when you are done but nothing useful will come from shooting groups from different positions and the way the gun is held and recoils. It all plays a i part on how bullets land on the target end
It’s pretty impressive how close they are all things considered so your rifle seems very consistent


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I'm pretty happy with it. I needed something that shot well to compensate for my lack of skill and knowledge, so glad to have some confirmation that the Sauer 100 is good enough in that regard.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

get an air rifle...like the slug gun you had as a kid..it WILL build muscle memory which is what you need to do.... a hundred rounds of .22lr is alot of fun too and again builds muscle memory.... even laying prone at home getting into position aiming down hallway of house (unloaded /EMPTY BOLTLESS rifle of course) will also help you to get into position faster when you need to..sitting with elbows on inside of knees is a position I often end up using,a good one to practise.

If I have read this right and this is the first time you have shot a centerfire rifle and if these groups are at 100m or even yards for the philistines then you have done damn well.
The others above have addressed the time and shoulder switch
Only thing I will add is if you switch shoulders then keep the group as a separate identity and do not attempt to shoot after the switch into the same group as the other shoulder
Some of us are right handed but left eye dominant , that can be interesting until a decision is made as to the way you will shoot.

Even today at over 60 when some one hands me or I shoulder a rifle in a shop , if I don't consciously think about it I sometimes shoulder on the "Wrong" shoulder.

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Originally Posted by jakewire

If I have read this right and this is the first time you have shot a centerfire rifle and if these groups are at 100m or even yards for the philistines then you have done damn well.
The others above have addressed the time and shoulder switch
Only thing I will add is if you switch shoulders then keep the group as a separate identity and do not attempt to shoot after the switch into the same group as the other shoulder
Some of us are right handed but left eye dominant , that can be interesting until a decision is made as to the way you will shoot.

Even today at over 60 when some one hands me or I shoulder a rifle in a shop , if I don't consciously think about it I sometimes shoulder on the "Wrong" shoulder.

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Yep, 14 rounds total from a centerfire.
I'm left handed, left eye dominant but bought a right handed rifle to shoot with my right eye as it's much clearer. Just feels weird, but as Micky Duck said an air rifle to practice with is a good idea to sort the muscle memory.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

1-2" groups is a good start. Well done.

I think the next step for you is to take the guesswork out of shooting technique and visit a local centrefire (NZDA etc) rifle club. When there tell them you are brand new and ask if there is a present or past club competition shooter, or experienced hunter who can help you. An hour spent with a good coach will teach you a great deal about prep and maintenance for your rifle, help you with ammos, teach you correct body position, breathing, positional pressures, trigger weight/process, parallax etc. This mentoring may cost nothing but will give you a sound foundation.

Also good to spend a season at a local smallbore rifle club. This offers opportunity for great practice with much cheaper ammo than centrefires, and you will improve alot over a year. Again best to ask for a mentor

A good start - go for it. :)

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Originally Posted by Eat Meater

Yep, 14 rounds total from a centerfire.
I'm left handed, left eye dominant but bought a right handed rifle to shoot with my right eye as it's much clearer. Just feels weird, but as Micky Duck said an air rifle to practice with is a good idea to sort the muscle memory.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

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Yeah you are off to a great start if you are already shooting that well this early on with that rifle, my dad uses a right handed rifle left handed and it’s a tad awkward to get your bearings but equally as fast and smooth once you are up and running


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Those groups are =to a dead deer at 200yds.Try a A4 paper at 200yds.Dont waste to much ammo.Going hunting.

Have you 'fitted' your rifle yet ? I fit all my rifles which means adjusting the length, packing the comb so that when the rifle is shouldered with eyes closed and the eye is opened it is looking straight down the scope at a clear image.
For practice, walk around the backyard for ten minutes every day cocking and snapping off shots ( a 'snap cap' is required) at knot holes in the fence etc. Very soon the rifle will become a part of you.
'Natural point of aim' as described in a thread / vid by Norway and touched on above by Mickey Duck is a very useful check before shooting. I only learnt that last year from Norways vids and it made a tremendous difference to my 'all positions' field shooting.

Id say if you had an older friend thats experienced in gun handling that would be willing to take you under their wing it would save you a ton of headaches

I few "hurry the fuck up its going to walk off" and "what are you doing you nonce" save a ton of wondering

its a lot to get your head around to begin with but with a bit of an old head around you will be away running in no time

Have not kept the practice up, backyard city, nosey neirbours and the current feelings about guns.
Invested in a quality springer air rifle HW80, heavy & requires technique to shoot well, every day I would freehand shoot a half a dozen shots at a swinger target 10mm at 15 meters. Great practice, helps heaps.

Yep, good enough to hunt deer with out to 200 I think.

You might benefit from a cheek pad/riser. Helped me.

Does my head in. Rifles sold with no open sights yet stock is designed for them, not a scope.

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Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Yep, good enough to hunt deer with out to 200 I think.

You might benefit from a cheek pad/riser. Helped me.

Does my head in. Rifles sold with no open sights yet stock is designed for them, not a scope.

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Not a bad idea. Will get one. Thanks

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

I've always found it tough to get in a good amount of practice with centerfire... but if you can shoot a good break barrel air rifle (or a .22) well, you will have the fundamentals of marksmanship. At least with an air rifle you can generally practice at home with appropriate safety backstop and targets. The reality is... whatever you shoot on a bench on paper will your BEST shooting, compared to a shot on the field, a shaky rest and your heart pumping.

"Go slow to go fast" - make sure you are a decent shot with an air rifle or a .22 in different positions, before spending $5 a pop on factory 6.5 CM ammo. The last thing you want to do is wound game because of a poor shot.

As for your setup and eye dominance, you will also want to make sure the reticule is focused (adjust the ring closest to your eye, not the zoom ring) and watch for parallax error where an inconsistent head position will move the cross hair. Some scopes have parallax adjustment, some don't... so best way to minimise is to get as consistent cheek weld as possible and not swap aiming eyes.

For the first shots from that rifle, and the first shots for some time with centerfire and an unusual shooting situation at a range not a bad effort.

My advice is go with the cheaper option either air rifle or .22 in as similar a configuration as you can get to the centerfire and find someone who's happy to give you a bit of time mentoring or coaching your technique. I see a few possible technique things that might be going on apart from the identified double grouping from changing eyes and shoulders but I can't really confirm until I see you shooting or I could well make your results worse and just confuse you...