Thread: New range laws and shooting on unregistered ranges

Originally Posted by Daniel Kwon

Yeah, I was one of them. I'm just trying to raise awareness of how to submit and how important of a process it is. It's a nuanced system that could do with some clarity, which is what I'm trying to bring. At the end of the day it's up to you to decide if you want to submit or not, but don't be surprised if our majoritarian system of governance doesn't work in your favor because we failed to be heard.

I wrote a six pager during the pistol grip saga. This is just as important to me, as it is to you. I'm trying to help.

When it is claimed that the submission are read at a rate of 1000 an hour for 24 hours straight, I don't believe it.

Just like when colfo sent out a template for an opposing submission and they were counted as a single submission, but when a north shore councilor sent out a supporting submission template on Facebook, they were individually counted.

90% of submissions opposed the legislation change. The submission process is a consultation box ticking exercise. The decision has already been made.

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

90% of submissions opposed the legislation change. The submission process is a consultation box ticking exercise. The decision has already been made.

A submission process isn't simply about the number of submissions, it should be about the quality of the submissions.

It isn't good or sufficient simply to oppose a proposal (or legislation).
Well reasoned and logical arguments are a vital part of a submission.

A select committee (or a council committee or hearing panel) need to be able to understand the reasons underpinning and supporting a submission.

A well reasoned, well argued submission has a much greater chance of success.

A submission process isn't a referendum. A majority of votes (in favour or against) doesn't mean anything. It isn't just a numbers game.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

A submission process isn't simply about the number of submissions, it should be about the quality of the submissions.

It isn't good or sufficient simply to oppose a proposal (or legislation).
Well reasoned and logical arguments are a vital part of a submission.

A select committee (or a council committee or hearing panel) need to be able to understand the reasons underpinning and supporting a submission.

A well reasoned, well argued submission has a much greater chance of success.

A submission process isn't a referendum. A majority of votes (in favour or against) doesn't mean anything. It isn't just a numbers game.

True, I watched several submitters spout off conspiracy theories and wild claims, only for MPs from all parties to visibly disengage.

But when the members of the governing party on a select committee pretty much ignore all the points made from one side, you need to start questioning the functioning of "democracy". Having been through the process myself, I doubt if I would bother again in future...

Originally Posted by ebf

True, I watched several submitters spout off conspiracy theories and wild claims, only for MPs from all parties to visibly disengage.

But when the members of the governing party on a select committee pretty much ignore all the points made from one side, you need to start questioning the functioning of "democracy". Having been through the process myself, I doubt if I would bother again in future...

when i took the time off work to do it on the second round I got the distinct impression of this.

https://youtu.be/bi7V_RoUW3k

whenever anyone added something useful or brought up inconvenient facts.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

A submission process isn't simply about the number of submissions, it should be about the quality of the submissions.

It isn't good or sufficient simply to oppose a proposal (or legislation).
Well reasoned and logical arguments are a vital part of a submission.

A select committee (or a council committee or hearing panel) need to be able to understand the reasons underpinning and supporting a submission.

A well reasoned, well argued submission has a much greater chance of success.

A submission process isn't a referendum. A majority of votes (in favour or against) doesn't mean anything. It isn't just a numbers game.

True, but when you see them more or less ignore very well reasoned and well argued submissions (including well qualified experts in the field, and the likes of the law society and the human rights commission) because they've already made up their minds in advance... lets just say its difficult to have much faith in the system.