Thread: Perplexing, inexplicable misses

Originally Posted by Flyblown

If you go back three or four years you will find a thread by me that describes the flyer problem I had with CCI standard velocity and the lengths I went to to prove it to the manufacturer, resulting the full refund of a large batch I had bought from Broncos. The batch was manufactured during the pandemic lockdowns and scratching around on the Internet I found enough information to suggest other shooters were experiencing the same thing. There were a few threads on Rimfire Central discussing the same problem.

Most of the time the flyer was accompanied by a super sonic crack, but not always. I forget the numbers now but the flyers were sufficiently inaccurate to easily miss a possum’s head at 25m.

I was chatting to a professional pest control in Australia the other day and he said he also experienced significant problems with CCI ammunition from the same period of manufacture, But that recently manufactured batches seemed to be fine. So maybe that’s your problem, have a look at the batch date and go from there.

Thanks Flyblown... now you mention it I do recall the thread about a bad batch. I've never noticed a batch number or date on any of my CCI stuff. I will check it out.

Yep Blip, I remember a farmer telling me that solids were what he preferred for bigger animals. He was born in a time when ammo was not easy to get, particularly for the family .303.... so some people used a .22 for a variety of purposes. One guy in the same area had an old (new then) Winchester single shot .22 (bolt action...load, then pull back the cocking knob) with which he shot at least one feral bull. While I've had good results on goats and smaller pigs with hollow subsonics (mostly the Aussie-made Winchester subs), if I only had a .22 and I wanted the best possible result when head shooting goats or pigs, I think I'd opt for solids myself in the hope that they might penetrate a little further. Fortunately I have a .357 and some subsonic cartridges corked with 200 grain bullets which can penetrate amazingly while having a trajectory similar to a .22 sub. I've shot a few animals with solid .22 bullets and I don't recall any worrying results. I've also had some horrible experiences when using hollow point .22 and bigger centrefires. Landing the bullet in the right spot is always what I strive for, but sometimes things don't go well. Perhaps some thermal scopes are better than others, and the one I've been using seems really good... but I suspect that when I am looking at what looks like a perfectly exposed animal on the screen, there may be a few small sticks or something in front of it which may cause a bullet to deflect. I took a head shot at a deer with my thermal scoped .223 a while back, and it didn't drop. I spotted it again and got it. The first shot had hit a back leg which is a long way from the head. It was a sobering experience.

Back to the .303 ammo shortage (and veering off topic a bit). The family I was talking about lived in Coppermine Bay, d'Urville Island on the south side of French Pass. To the north of the Pass, a local guy was killed by a bull in Kapowai Bay. Naturally there was a desire to kill the bull. I could have the number wrong, but one of the Coppermine Bay family found three old 303 cartridges in a cupboard and one of these was used to shoot the bull. Interestingly two people who know the area well say that the old man that was killed has been seen recent times... in what you might call a 'ghost' form. I know and trust both these people. Interesting food for thought. One of these witnesses saw the old man so often he referred to him as his 'old mate'.

The best ammunition for .22lr from my teen years before Winchester power point came out was in white box with blue picture of Aussie in it. Called Aussie ammo. It was bare lead and a solid with dimple in the tip...not enough to be called a hollow point. It was fantastic stuff and I've never seen it since nor even found photos of it.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

The best ammunition for .22lr from my teen years before Winchester power point came out was in white box with blue picture of Aussie in it. Called Aussie ammo. It was bare lead and a solid with dimple in the tip...not enough to be called a hollow point. It was fantastic stuff and I've never seen it since nor even found photos of it.

I do remember it but never used it

Here you go.

This is the Applied Ballistics app, using “weapon employment zone” modelling. It simulates a thousand shots with random combinations of typical errors that occur: ive put in that your average 5 shot group is 2 MOA dia ( rifle plus shooter) ie 1/2” at 25 yd. Range estimation uncertainty sd=5 m ie 2/3 of the time you estimate within +/- 5m of the actual range and 95% of the time within 10m ( typical for spotlight shooting ?) and you can see a few other variables and their sd there too.

The circle is 2cm radius at 25m. Pretty big for a possum head but perhaps about right for a rabbit chest shot.



So this shows the shots would string out vertically.
In this case it estimates 76% will hit the 2cm circle. So maybe 5-10% would go right over the possums head.

Why do shots go high and low when you can shoot moa on paper ?

This graph shows the relative contribution of various errors:


By far the biggest cause of vertical spread is error in estimating the range.
No need to blame the ammo or shooting skill.

If you want to avoid this problem, either use a a range finder and adjust for it ( who does that at night?) or use a 17HMR.
Heres the same modelling but using HMR ballistics:


Not a problem. 100% hit probability if you shoot 2 MOA in the field.

Wow Bagheera, that looks like a fairly advanced system. Thanks for the introduction. The furthest I've progressed with this type of thing is figuring out how to work with the online Federal Ballistics Calculator - which has been very useful, especially when I can't always check my rifle sighting at its furthest 'zero' range. I downloaded a ballistics app, but I gave up trying to make it work for the loads I was experimenting with. It wasn't your one though. I should take the time to read about it. Interesting. I appreciate you taking the time to post this.

Pointblank online is free on huntingnut website. Simple to use and does the trick. There is flash version you can download from same place. I like being able to tootoo with sight in distances, velocities sight height etc. too easy to do best guess of velocity and find a near enough BC by looking at something similar in loading manuals.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Pointblank online is free on huntingnut website…..

Didn’t know about that program either. Thanks. My limited use of a ballistics calculator has been useful, interesting and fulfilling. I’ve zeroed my .22 and .357 (shooting Subsonics) at 50 metres, and the .223 is zeroed at 100 metres. I have a strip of white electricians tape stuck to each stock on which I’ve noted the bullet drop at a selection of ranges. I don’t have any easily adjustable scopes, but the drop table gives me a guide as to how much I should be holding over.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

The best ammunition for .22lr from my teen years before Winchester power point came out was in white box with blue picture of Aussie in it. Called Aussie ammo. It was bare lead and a solid with dimple in the tip...not enough to be called a hollow point. It was fantastic stuff and I've never seen it since nor even found photos of it.

It grouped very well in my Stirling 14p

Two misses that were, at the time, inexplicable.
I was out for a quick afternoon hunt, and within the space of half an hour wounded one pig and clean missed another. Both at a distance of about 15m!!!! After the second miss I was scratching my head and took a shot at a white lichen spot on a big beech tree at about 20m. I missed the tree!!!!!
I went home and thought I would grab some more ammo and head straight to the range to see what was wrong. As I was rummaging through my ammo.....a light bulb moment. Hhhhmmmmm. That's my 243win ammo. I was using my 308win................

Originally Posted by Shearer

Two misses that were, at the time, inexplicable.
I was out for a quick afternoon hunt, and within the space of half an hour wounded one pig and clean missed another. Both at a distance of about 15m!!!! After the second miss I was scratching my head and took a shot at a white lichen spot on a big beech tree at about 20m. I missed the tree!!!!!
I went home and thought I would grab some more ammo and head straight to the range to see what was wrong. As I was rummaging through my ammo.....a light bulb moment. Hhhhmmmmm. That's my 243win ammo. I was using my 308win................

I bet that'ds happened more than once to other people.

Have you got a pic of the case ?

Originally Posted by Bagheera

I bet that'ds happened more than once to other people.

Have you got a pic of the case ?

No. Didn't look too unusual though. Surprised I didn't blow my suppressor apart though.

Originally Posted by Shearer

Two misses that were, at the time, inexplicable.
IHhhhmmmmm. That's my 243win ammo. I was using my 308win................

I imagine that would be easy to do. I don't have those calibres, but I still have to be careful to grab the correct stuff out of my locked box. I once went to a hunt on a farm which, fortunately, was relatively close to home. As soon as I got out of the car, I spotted a deer in the distance. I went to slide the bolt into the .223 but realised I'd left the danged thing at home. I drove back home and grabbed the bolt. I got back maybe 3/4 of an hour later and the deer was in virtually the same spot. I managed to get close enough for a successful shot.

Originally Posted by Coote

I imagine that would be easy to do. I don't have those calibres, but I still have to be careful to grab the correct stuff out of my locked box. I once went to a hunt on a farm which, fortunately, was relatively close to home. As soon as I got out of the car, I spotted a deer in the distance. I went to slide the bolt into the .223 but realised I'd left the danged thing at home. I drove back home and grabbed the bolt. I got back maybe 3/4 of an hour later and the deer was in virtually the same spot. I managed to get close enough for a successful shot.

Yeah. Both rifles are Tikkas so there was nothing unusual about loading 243 ammo into a Tikka mag. Hopefully lesson learnt.

Older brother tried to chamber round in his 7mm mag....didn't fire hmmmm WTF a 308 round....lesson learnt. There have been a few 270s that fired a .308 through them and held together!!!! Faaark that for a game of soldiers!!!!

a 12guage shotgun delivers a very terminal dose of contraception on a screaming buck of horny wee doe and "its a once in a lifetime happening "if ya gets my drift . .22,303 or 12guage used em all on jackos sometimes with bloody spectacular results . seen a screaming snarling shitting buck jacko in a house roof get met with a double det from Dads sxs 12g at 1'range in my childhood .yup i can stillsee the red rimmed hole in the house roof now and a bloody uncle grasping 2/3of a jacko carcass (front legs back head gone!)
recoil oon a 12g -if youve got it locked in on the mild end .if youre recoil sensitve try using 28gm trap loads to assist .