Does anyone have advice on using subsonic .270 ammo, (short range bush hunting deer) and where to buy in NZ?
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Does anyone have advice on using subsonic .270 ammo, (short range bush hunting deer) and where to buy in NZ?
The 270 case and bore is not suitable for subs mate.
The case volume is too large for such a small quantity of powder and you could risk miss fires. I wouldn't imagine there would be too many 270 pills that would be a good subs either. You really need a heavy 200 grain plus lead pill with no jacket.
You never know someone say I am wrong on this
Seems correct in all, except even a few grains of Trail Boss in a far corner of that case will still ignite consistently. You'd get a nice quiet .270 you could ethically/confidently only do head shots with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
That said, point any firearm in a safe direction, it's relative, some people even consider .32ACP a mouse calibre, but its use in humane killer devices show you can put down big bulls with it... head shots again of course.
as said above...the mighty poohseventy is a great round.....by doing what you are trying,you are hamstringing it back to really hohum....IF you intend to persist MAYBE 150grn speerspbt MIGHT expand a LITTLE bit...but it will only be a little....trailboss will do it,but you arent going to be impressed with terminal preformance...
I played around with subs they are great for plinking,finishing shots and small game....thats the positive
negatives....ricochette like hell if hit something hard...scary as faaaark......miss central nerve stem/brain by any amount and animal will walk away pissed off and wounded...and I mean ANY amount....
you could download with trail boss..eg same volume of powder as normal stuff....it will probably give you 1500-2000fps and be quiet as heck...you will still have a LITTLE shock and some expansion WITHOUT the big boom or recoil....but you have in effect turned it into a 7.62x39mm....
Just make sure the first projectile has left the barrel before feeding it another.
Thanks Cordite, I had heard of Trail Boss as a safe powder option, didn't know if it would be any good with the case combination, the .270 case being relatively large capacity. I'm probably not skilled enough to do head shots only :)
ouch, doesn't bear thinking of!
Thanks Muzza, yes I have a nice gunworks over barrel suppressor but she's very loud even with that on (standard ammo). I saw a video recently where a guy took 3 deer out a few minutes apart each one with subsonic- was impressive that the others weren't spooked. I didn't know what cal he was using so thought I'd ask about .270 subsonic options. Thanks for the help!
Thanks GKP, I'd heard of Trail Boss which is much bulkier than standard powder, but it sounds from what you say like the .270 isn't the ideal calibre to use in subsonic anyway. Cheers!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
Thanks Micky Duck, at least it would be a quiet 7.62x39 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
No poach, just impressed at seeing someone take several deer minutes apart using subsonic (cal not known). Would be nice to be able to not spook any others nearby as much.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
Thanks Mauser308, yup 270 big case/small bore is great for speed but not so for subsonic then, appreciate you sharing your knowledge thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
if the noise thing is the biggest issue...TRY some lesser loads,something with less powder will be quieter...a case full of trail boss will go bang but not boom.even diferent factory loading sound different....for what its worth Ive used poohseventy for 30something years,since suppressing it the heavier loads get the tick. as for the shot disturbing other animals...how many deer can you carry out???? for me its shoot one and hunt is over.
Speaking of the red monster under the bed ... the 7.62x39 Soviet is ideal for heavy subsonic boolits, get some .303 cast boolits from shooternz on TM. The 150 grainers are popular but he also has 210 grainers.Quote:
Originally Posted by nakikiwi
Just be careful that the bullets you use will open up at the lower speeds. Many years back when I started meat hunting me mate loaded some rounds for his 270 but cut back on the powder a bit, back then no chrono so we had no idea the speed but it would have been a fair bit slower than normal rounds. He lost three deer in a row with good hits I think the bullets were not opening properly causing the animals to get away. Nowadays there are plenty of more fragile bullets some it shouldn't be to much of a problem.
A mate of mine did up subs in a .280 using trail boss, so can be done. He found that he could not get projectiles to open up on goats/deer and gave up on the the project. He just uses them now for dealing with camp possums. That was a decade or so ago, so may be a better selection of projectiles...although I can't imagine that .270 cal is well supported in this regard.
I like @Micky Ducks idea, try a frangible varmit style bullet at low (but still supersonic) speed with Trail boss, I reckon you could get great results and still be a lot quieter than standard ammo.
Just buy a 300blk ruger
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Dama dama...that gives me idea...the hornady 110grn hpfb are absolutely volitile at std speeds....they MIGHT be ok at lower speed and not blow to bits so he could have some penertration along with expansion...the 150 speers have reputation for being very soft and ok down to 1800fps was why I suggested them...
Yes that is the type of thing I mean. At those low speeds, say 1500-2000 fps, a varmint bullet would likely hold together and mushroom ok(ish). Could be worth a try but do some research first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Edit: This is all theory on my behalf, no doubt others on here will be better able to make more informed comments.
TRUE...but.....if a person is asking about buying subsonic poohseventy loads,they probably havent had the experience to gain the expertise to place the said projectile with screwdriver type precision.....
some of us have suggested a graduated licence system before and got lynched for it.
Weeellllll....difference between dying where you want and getting away to die somewhere elseQuote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
An old acquaintance I used to play footy with and a way better hunter (and shot) than I will ever be (doing guiding now for a crust) was telling us the day after how he smacked a deer with the 308 in heavy bush. Probably shoulder shot. Even found bits of bone on the ground. Right on dark. He had gone back with a mate and his dog to try and find it in the dark with a spotlight before it started to rain and wash all hope away. Expressed frustration of looking at the beech leaves thinking it was a drop of blood but they had that red spot on them as well.
Didn't get the deer. Wasn't happy for a whole lot of reasons.
Not sure what you are driving at here @mimms2
I was specifically discussing shooting large animals with reduced loads and varmint bullets - I've never actually done it. BUT there seems to be plenty of examples of varmint bullets blowing up on the shoulder when pushed at full noise. Put those two things together and I'd love others to comment on whether my theory of low speed varmint bullets will work humanly and consistently. Its theory to me as all my recreational hunting has been with standard loadings using standard cup & core hunting bullets and at very much standard speeds - which work well, but not what the original poster was interested in.
Also, you've made stop and think; I've killed lots of animals in a rather surprising variety of methods....
Dama dama the 130grn speer HP in .308 are a classic...VERY fragile in the big case...poke them out of a 7.62x39mm and they are awesome,the nosler ballistic tips work well at slower speed too,so NO you not being at all silly with the idea.
Ive killed possums with a wooden sword,untill it broke.....oh also stabbed one in ceiling with my deer antlers one day too LOL. have probably killed possums with more varied methods than any other,stabbed/shot/squashed/drowned/shot some more/hit with axe/exploded with large calibre/shredded with .12ga and magnum goose loads/donged with various items....had one hanging onto my finger through welders glove with its teeth one day...wanted my mate to cut the hua off with chainsaw...man it hurt like a son of a bitch....teach me to take it off dogs.
@Micky Duck yup also had a possum bite me through a heavy leather glove. Couldn't believe hard it could bite. I expected to be missing a lump off my finger. I was supplying an outfit with live possums and had to get about 20 from leg-hold traps into juke sacks, what a fucken' act!
One thing I learnt out of that exercise was how much more aggressive male possums were compared to females, not something you notice when simply whacking them on the noggin with a hammer.
I honestly cant believe you wrote that.........hunters have been specifically AVOIDING hitting the heart for generations....and the shoulder shot is the mainstay of many many wise folk as animal is anchored,the vital lungs and major blood vessels are hidden/protected behind/between them....punch through being almost guesswork is the dopeyist thing Ive read in ages....for many years folk have been told to picture a balloon/basketball between the legs inside the chest and aim to shoot through it,preferably breaking one of both legs at same time. if a fella is using enough gun,precision may be desireable but not necessary....a 8" vital area isnt that hard to hit from MOST angles....this reminds me of my time using the wee x39mm BHSR it was capable of better grouping if Id bothered to try but with 2" grouping with any ammo anyday...it was perfectly ethical killing machine for up to about 150 yards,thats still less than 4" or half the vital area needed to be hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
Ive killed enough deer with single shot to the chest to know it works very well...some of them were with .223 by careful projectile selection to ensure it would drivethrough and do the damage needed...I have headshot deer too,not often but have done it...only when I knew a 2nd shot was guaranteed if I stuffed it up. red yearlings both times that come to mind,one with 223 at hundyish,mate and son were both within similar range with rifles if I missed. 2nd one was in spotlight with .12ga........oops thats not a precision weapon...but at the right range it works.
While Micky Duck and I have got a long way off track ourselves with discussion on possum bites, I think you have missed the point of the thread....?Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
Yeah mate, I've always found there are a bunch of kinda vitals things behind the shoulder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
them there 180grn round nose slugs seem to be rather good at finding them too.....LMFAO
I started typing a reply, but just don't care enough. @199p made most sensible post in this thread.
mimms2 you appearto favour head/atlas joint shots....so tell me do you prefer a stout projectile or a fast expanding /varmit type for this shot?????
the heart is avoided by all BUT bowhunters (for obvious reasons) so it can still PUMP blood out of the holes you cause in the blood vessels,the ultimate isto hit major blood vessels in base of lungs,near heart WITHOUT HITTING IT so it pumps furiously and animal runs out of oil so to speak in matter of seconds....very similar to sticking a pig. if you heart shoot an animal without hitting leg bones to immobilise it (shot goes behind forelegs low down) the animal can carry on untill the blood in system runs out of oxigen...Ive seen heart shot hares go 50-75 yards on enough occasions to proove this one. never seen a shoulder shot one go anywhere.
Greetings All,
I have yet to see a better description of options for killing shots on deer than the chapters contained in "The Sharp Shooter". This was a book by Matt and Bruce Grant is the collected writings of both men previously published in Outdoor Mag. In my ever so slightly humble opinion these chapters should be required reading for all who carry a rifle into the New Zealand bush.
Regards Grandpamac.
I try and avoid hitting the heart as it’s one of the best eating bit of the deer..
Why so hostile? Because that is the sort of guy he is-anchor it. I wasn't there and it is a long time ago, so I am deferring to an old memory. He was genuinely surprised with the shot he did, why it wasn't where it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
He is not the only experienced guy I know that take the front legs out if he has to.
I have no doubt he would do precise shots on occasion especially if he was selling it back when you could. Plus the fact he got a piece of bone out of it would suggest major bone hit by projectile.
you are only able to get the subx range in NZ at the moment 300blk, 3030, 308, 450BM
30cal is my favorite size for subs, bigger is better but louder
Ill make some 243 subs up at some stage for the same reason, I get farken bored carrying a rifle all day and not bieng able to shoot hares, possoms, rabbits and subs work just fine if you put them into the skull cavity filled with the brainy part in anything
if you can convince someone to hand load for you a lead cast hollow point with trailboss you will get the effectiveness of a subsonic 22lr
Im a huge fan of subs and have gotten really good at killing things with it, BUT think of your bullet like a knitting needle and if you poke it where you are aiming will it die?
i self set a max range of about 35m
I go for the brain box and make scrambled eggs from it
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yeah my dad shot a deer up the date and had zero meat damage and pulverised internals. what a fucking mess that would be to clean tho, I hate popping the poo bag let alone exploding it at 3200fps
As posted-wasn't me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
And to be fair back then and probably a little now I would still on occasion-depending on calibre-take out the front legs with a highish shoulder shot with the intent to take out vitals in-between. very dependant on time allowed, animal in question, size etc. though
A 300 blackout would be the best to get if that’s what you want. Has the correct twist rate for that speed and can buy factory 200gr subsonic ammo. Small light rifle 10-12” barrel. 30 cal projectile out to about 80-100m. The ruger American is a good cheap rifle for that.
Hodgon does have some loads going about 1300fps,think they used trailboss.... not quite subsonic but would be much quiter with a supressor
