tikka t3x 300wm cant get to group....

So, I brought this rifle brand new 3 years ago from guncity.
Factory tikka t3x sft
Egw 20moa rail
Factory muzzle brake
Harris bipod
Second hand bushnell dmr elite tactical ii
Second hand tier one 34mm rings
Hornady factory loads, winchester deer season, etc never grouped that well from the get go.
Fast forward 6 months, I brought a dpt chassis
Re torqued the action into the chassis to 65inch lb
Had end re threaded to suit a suppressor.
Factory loads didnt work great still

Placed into safe. 18 months later, purchased a mdt chassis as liked it more, additionally installed a terminator tt brake. Same torque settings and additionally started hand loading.
Went out today, and shot a few load groups and seating depths.
Still not grouping well and cant figure out why.
Got home, removed rail, and scope and re torqued it all done, there was possibly 2x front lose screws on the rail but not lose enough to jump out at my face.

The chassis has it's own recoil lug so assuming I could cancel that out, have re torqued the rail and rings, so assuming I can cancel that out, and going out on a whim but assuming I can cancel out the brake, suppressor, or factory brake.

What else could.be causing a problem with this rifle? Do scopes tend to stuff out and not hold zero to this degree?

A typical group is somthing like, 6-8inch groups at 100m , I can get 1/2 - 3/4 groups at 100m with my 308 and 6.5 prc.

Please help!!!

6 - 8 inches! Have you tried another scope?

Nope, havent tried another scope yet... I guess that's the only way to confirm if it's the scope or not ?

Problem is I've never found a load to shoot through it nicely, so not sure where I should start while looking through another scope. Have lost all trust in this rig, anyone else got a similar setup with a load or factory round that's working ok?

In a group of 6, I'll get 2 within half an inch, then a random one 6 inch left, then 2 inch higher and left, then one another 3 inches closer to the group of two... like... its completly random and I'm wasting alot of rl26 powder :(

It seems you've changed alot of variables except for the scope - maybe somethings come loose inside the scope???
I'd try one of your other scopes as the next step.

Will give that ago next, have a burris xtr tactical 1-4 sitting there. Might chuck that on next. Should I just throw a group down of factory loads for testing ? Is it worth getting a rifle bench vice thing to help?

will scope track round 15 clicks in a circle and come back to home base?????
chuck another scope on it....10 mins work to do...headache gone/doubt gone...failing that let me talk to your range buddie....

your last comment........and suggestion of a 1-4 power scope to test accuracy would SUGGEST you havent spent alot of time behind butt of big rifle....is this correct????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

will scope track round 15 clicks in a circle and come back to home base?????
chuck another scope on it....10 mins work to do...headache gone/doubt gone...failing that let me talk to your range buddie....

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It's not as easy as swapping a dif scope on, as I dont even have a factory load that this fires nicely? I have the spare Burris scope, but that's about it. Itll be good for doing a test I'm sure. But ammo wise.... no idea....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

your last comment........and suggestion of a 1-4 power scope to test accuracy would SUGGEST you havent spent alot of time behind butt of big rifle....is this correct????

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I mean to test it against the burris. Have 7mmrm, 300wm, 6.5 prc, and 308. All shoot well bar the 300wm.

which sort of confirms what Im asking....
how so not fires nicely??????
it goes bang and exits muzzle...you should have some sort of consistancy from pretty much any load....consistantly good or consistantly shit...but consistant.

a 6" grouping load should stay at 6" IF everything is ok butthe load....another load at say 3" will stay at 3"

Ive had what you describe twice with same rifle...the 2nd time it was loose scope bases...the first time was when I first got it...and that was combination of hard recoil pad and HEAVY trigger causing something that starts with F and rhymes with grinch.....

you have two ways to test scope/rifle......swap scope onto another rifle to see if that rifle groups same as always OR put scope off other rifle on 300 and shoot it at range...you DONT NEED it zeroed,just on paper,so it can go back where it came from and need little tweaking to be rezeroed...if it shoots 6" group...well youve eliminated issue of scope being issue.

I see what your saying, but I'm getting a 6" group, with multiple loads, factory loads etc. As stated, I did remove the scope, and retorque the rail, it seemed to me as though therenwerena few lose ones... but cant confirm. They were definatly undertorqued according to egw specs. Have retorqued the rail, and the tier one scope rings. Will give that another group of 3 and see where they sit.
If that doesnt works I'll take my spare scope down and swap it on just to see how it fires an additional group of 3.

I would just chuck the burris on and fire a group of your factory rounds....if its still 6-8 inches then you can rule out the scope

how does it group for your experienced shooting mentor/buddy is the other way to eliminate the YOU factor....keep at it and let us know how you get on....Im not saying you ARE suffering from dreaded complaint...but its a lot bigger cannon that your other rifles so you MAY be....

I'm not saying that I'm a good shooter, but like to think I'm ok with the recoil of the 300wm, enough to not flinch, and have additionally lightened the trigger right down also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

how does it group for your experienced shooting mentor/buddy is the other way to eliminate the YOU factor....keep at it and let us know how you get on....Im not saying you ARE suffering from dreaded complaint...but its a lot bigger cannon that your other rifles so you MAY be....

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I know what you mean, I'll get him to check that next time were out but the 300wm with the terminator tt has stuff all recoil compared to the 7mmRm without any brake or supressor.

Where in Wellington are you. I'm sure i could get it sorted for you. I have a Tikka 300winmag that puts all 5 bullets in one hole with my hand loads. The cheapest factory ammo on the market (Highland) is also well under moa.

If it were me i would take the scope off tonight and replace it, because from what your describing it sounds like its fucked.

Go shoot five rounds through it at a target. If it groups within 2inches at 100 yards, problem solved.

If not, take it off the chassis and put it on a factory tikka stock. Try again.

If not again, have a gunsmith look at the crown, if its been threaded it may have been crowned poorly and that can totally root a rifles accuracy.

If none of that fixes it, then youve got the only Tikka on the planet that isnt a shooter.

If you really cant get it sorted give it to me and ill take it home to wanganui one weekend and have a look at it for you. Im sure i could get it shooting just fine.

That's awesome, thanks mikeb. I really appreciate that. Do you hand load yours ? I'll make up some more loads as per hornady reloading book and put a different scope on and give it a crack.

Just makes me lose all trust in the scope, as it's the only thing second hand on there. And from new, with the factory crown on the rifle, it wasnt grouping well.

Would he said if it were the scope, as I brought it from someone off this forum.

@Larskramer you say that the rifle came with a factory muzzle brake. Was the barrel factory threaded or was it a Gun City upgrade?
Only reason I'm asking is that a mate had a very similar issue with a T3 Varmint purchased new through the same name sake company. Wouldn't group, Wouldn't group, Wouldn't group, $400 of different ammo, 2 trips to the "Smith" that threaded the barrel for said company and was supplied hand loads that would only group 1". I said I would take it home to have a look. I took the suppressor off and had a quick look down the bore. That looks a bit odd I think, so I slipped a cotton bud down and when I pulled it out there was a trail of fluff caught in the bore that had caught on annular rings intersecting the rifling.
1" of the bore had been stuffed by a tool that is inserted into the bore and tightened like a dyna bolt allowing the die to cut the thread without using a lathe.
Barrel was shortened and re-threaded by a well known NZ Gun Smith that is also known for NZTV hunting programs. It now shoots 1/2"!

In short, check out the muzzle/bore for damage when the barrel was threaded

Hey nate, thanks for that. Factory tikka thread with the factory sako brake. Then was re threaded for supressor and then supressor removed and terminator tt brake installed.

Will remove and check when I slip a different scope on for the interim in testing.

I would check the bore before removing the scope. If the bore looks good then change the scope. If the bore looks dodgy, take it to a Gun Smith with a good reputation.

Alan carr has a good rep world wide, but I will 100% check the crown and bore before removing thanks fireflite

Yeah yeah, I know. Blame the finger. Finger seems fine mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Larskramer

It's not as easy as swapping a dif scope on, as I dont even have a factory load that this fires nicely? I have the spare Burris scope, but that's about it. Itll be good for doing a test I'm sure. But ammo wise.... no idea....

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Any reputable factory ammo should be giving you close to MOA out of a basically new rifle. Get that scope changed.

A couple of other things to check.
1. the front screw for the rail isn't protruding into the bolt lug area of the action.check the others as well, but normally only the front one will give grief
2. the front king screw isn't protruding into the bolt lug area of the action

have you shot it without a brake or suppressor?

+1 scope rooted or something loose with the scope mount

I'm not familiar with that type of scope, but is the front ocular bell nice and tight? Doesn't have locking ring that isn't tight and is moving under recoil? Had that issue on a little .223.

Where in Welly are you ? I am happy to have a look at it, confirm torque settings etc.

Have you had someone else shoot the rifle ?

When we rec a rifle back where the end-user is having trouble meeting the accuracy guarantee - the first two things we do are.

Clean the barrel, and install a known good scope/ring/base setup.

Id place my money on the scope or mount setup. Probably the mount setup. You say a couple screws were loose on the rail - it might not seem like much but id put my money on that being the main problem. Loctite them (243 blue)

Have had this on a rifle and it was the rail and bases at fault.

Even though the screw were tight and torqued the EGW rail was loose (but not obviously) even though the screw were cinched up. In a rifle of that power it may be a bit undetectable until the shock of the shot is released. Was doing my head in too... swapped optics checked ringa all good. the only way I worked it out was I gave it a forceful shake (out of sheer frustration) and I felt something move...

I then tracked it down to a slight gap between the screw/bolt head and the countersunk hole is sat in. In the end we re-threaded the receiver holes to I think new M7 bolts and sweet as!!
hoping this is as easy for you... Ah yeah and was Tikka 7mm rem mag that then we got to sub .5 moa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Larskramer

Hey nate, thanks for that. Factory tikka thread with the factory sako brake. Then was re threaded for supressor and then supressor removed and terminator tt brake installed.

Will remove and check when I slip a different scope on for the interim in testing.

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Greetings Larksramer,
One thing to remember when trouble shooting is to only change one thing at a time and then test. If you change several things at once you will never know what the problem was. I have two Tikka T3 Lite rifles which are the most accurate rifles I own. Not sure about gnat testicles at 1000 paces but very good just the same.
Grandpamac.

First thought would be scope/mounts. Somthing would have to be seriously wrong with the barrel for a tikka to be shooting 6inchs plus. A bad load in mine is still sub 2 moa

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Another thing for blind mount holes, make sure the screw isn't bottoming out as it will come up to torque but with an air gap under the screw head. One ill-fitting screw on a mount can allow things to move, and it's in some cases a tiny amount of movement that you struggle to feel by hand that gives you all sorts of pain at the target.

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Totally @Mauser308 and it can be a real bugger to fault find on. Like I say I literally shook mine out of frustration held by the optic and felt it move very slightly but kinda weirdly out of synch that was the only thing that let on that it was a fault there. To ensure there wasn't a problem you remove the variables right so we opted for a re thread of the holes slightly larger and new bolts we knew were good thread and depth wise. Bloody hard to figure out tho.. that's for sure..

dti gauge might possibly show this kind of thing up

Ok here is what i would do

Check that the rifle is torqued in the chassis properly

Strip off the scope,rings and rail
Re install the scope rail (check that the rail is tight and the screws arent just tight)
Re install the scope rings
Re install scope (replace if you have one preferrably)
Remove and re install the brake
Buy some Sako factory ammo, like the gamehead pro as its got a good bullet too

Sako ammo is supposed to shoot sub 1 moa in tikkas and sakos

Then test fire it, if it does not shoot then. Then junk the rifle or send to a gunsmith for inspection. You would have propably voided your warranty by threading it for the brake.

Next time you buy a rifle with 1moa guarantee, go shoot it in factory form with whatever ammo the manufacturer recommends and if it does not shoot then take it back

If you are in Hamilton bring it over if you like, ill give it a look over too and see if i see anything.

Ok didnt see that it was factory threaded.

I agree with others your scope is propably rooted, or your mounting system is loose.

Well, you've certtainly got plenty of advice here.

While you're testing a different scope (use one you know and trust from one of your other rifles not the 1-4x), I'd suggest you go back to basics, temporarily replace the whole sight system with something you know is OK. Borrow a set of tikka rings, and try it without the rail.
Then if that fixes the problem, try putting the rail back on with the known good scope and a set of known good Picatinny rings that have been used on another rifle that shoots OK.

I'd use a cheap factory ammo as it will be obvious when you've taken out the component that's giving 6" groups.

You could do all this on a sheet of newspaper at 25m then you won't have to pfaff about adjusting the sights to zero.

Interesting problem,my son inlaw works in auz,brought a Browning x bolt Hell Canyon long Range 300 Win Mag(26in)fancy long name for a sales pitch.As he is from Otago I look after it.I had to set it up and site it in.He wanted me to use Federal 180gr,good cheap ammo and plenty of shops have it.I put Chinese scope on it he brought from china direct.No brand name on the scope.5 x30x50.Bloody great club of a thing.Put a gunworks suppresser on it.20 moa rail.
Think I could get that thing to touch holes at a 100yds.Groups no better than 2 to 4 inchs.Checked scope dialing,over 50 cms was only dialing 9.1 mm per clk instead of 10mm.Letting barrel cool between groups.Scope firmly fixed to rifle.
So I got to chch and brought some Hornady 180gr SSTs.bloody dear shit.Well you think I had a different rifle,after 4 shots sighting in,2 shots touching holes n bull at a 100yds.Deadly accurate rifle.Blu a couple of rabbit heads off at 400yds.
Try different ammo,once you get yr 300 shooting ok.

Yes plenty of advice.

Whenever you are required to go into troubleshooting mode, it is super important that you follow a linear approach and do as @grandpamac says, only change one thing at a time and test. If the result remains constant with the change, then you put the rifle back into exactly the same state as it was before, and repeat with the next change & test.

When I have had this kind of problem I have written down my test procedure in logical steps, starting with simplest check and progressing through in ascending order of complexity.

Doesn’t matter whether it’s an inaccurate rifle or fixing the lawnmower or troubleshooting a problematic engine, a linear path and logic will find the problem eventually.

Because you need to fire the rifle after every change to test it, you will need a well thought out plan with all the tools and alternative accessories, so you can make changes where ever you are doing the shooting. I find it much easier to diagnose something if I can go through the process in one hit. Nothing more frustrating than having to go backwards and forwards to a range for every minor change.

PM sent with a question about the scope you bought secondhand.

@Larskramer any updates?