I dont hesitate to beleive that about Malcolm.Brings back memories about PT jennings at west melton night nav..................We naved while he slept in the barracks:D.........I remember what he ran the next day two!.
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Dont worry Sgt Hata re alinged our bearings for us:thumbsup:...................he ran the sec gauntlet more than a few times he redeamed himself by standing up at the end of the third one with a smile......all was forgiven and became a very good navigator after that:D still in contact today.
Yes, an orienteering course would be awesome. The Army has agreat advantage i don't have in this regards though. They have the land and space to run this sort of event.... I won't say too much as it won't happen quickly and it could all come to nothing but i am working on this... The potential for screw ups is so high with an orienteering course. You only need one person to miss their mark by a hundred meters and they could walk into the firing line... and yes this is a risk that could be controlled.
Orienteering course would need a lot of set up and i suspect the entry wouldn't be $20 anymore.
Love to take part and learn. Cheers!
Actually thinking more like , actual silhoute shooting , ie 4 sets of 5 plates ( different sizes and ranges etc ) , knock down type , BUT as they would require re-setting more , something like Harry's is maybe the best ?
I agree a LR rimfire only comp would be good , say different ranges out to 200m ? ( knock down tgts )
Re : Orienteering , best done with out rifles/shooting ,, as there would be a wide range of different skill levels .
In the Army , they run thru nav training , before these tests/comps , and as such they have a known ? , base line of skills etc .
Only need one person to get LOST , to stop the comp/shoot etc , and worst case turn the event into a SAR mission .
Later Chris
Medium Range Training Event
Would be good
Yes but with Harry's place he is always going forward to spot hits, score and re-paint. And this setup severely limits the distances shot on the day to only 3-4 seperate distances. I agree with you though it certainly speeds things up though and allows more people to get through.
Yes, Harry's idea of a longer distance rim fire event is good. I think it will be swing targets in stead of knock down targets though. I have given Harry a couple of suggestions for that shoot. Hopefully he pulls it off. I am quite keen to attend. The foirmat he is proposing takes a while to get going - lets say their is 20 people there, with 5 minute at the first position the last person would start nearly two hours after the first...
Yep completely agree... but risks can be mitigated. Allow GPS navigation if need be... ensure shoot positions can see all the distance between them and the target including a safe backstop. Cell phone coverage over the course might be helpful. Teams of two might be a good idea. Even give them radio communication if it was warrented. If nothing else people might be able to follow the noise of the gun fire... ?
Certainly not easy... but doable with the right location, people and gear.
Hi, I haven't read 4 pages of what will be good posts - just turned to the back page like a lazy b888.
Most of those ideas sound great Gillie.
I wouldn't like to shoot if there were guys beetling about navigating an orienteering course somewhere near. I think that should be a non starter.
For long range .22, I reckon it should only be up to about 100m ie the range a .22 might reasonably be used at plus a bit. Would 250m be interesting for .17HMR shooters ? I know people do train with selected loads in .223 or .308 designed to mimic longer range ballistics of bigger cartridges - but what would a .22 match and what's the point ? A field shoot for .22RF, .17, .204, .223 could be be quite popular.
Your vid of the Rotorua shoot looked idyllic - good on you.
Much like Chris you are probably right. That said, you could run it with one static shooting position and orienteering points located away from the firing direction. Competitors are required to navigate to a marker then return to the shoot position before heading out to their next marker... If the entire course was encircled by something (road, fence, river... and shoot position fired out of the course area then you could tell competitors not to cross the course boundary. If they got lost they could then follwo the course boundary until they got to a shoot location.
Again, probably a non starter...
Pretty certain i read somewhere that shooting a .22LR to 200m mimics shooting a .308 to 900 yards or something. Certainly would boost confidence in dialing several minutes of wind.
The great thing about using the 22LR is it is cheap, they don't use jacketed projectiles so you can set steel targets as close as a few meters, steel targets only need to be mild steel and the .22LR is a reasonably level playing field for everyone. As soon as you introduce the .17s, .204, .222, .223 then everything gets more complicated.
I think maybe a short nav instruction course could be what maybe of interest or use ? , you would have to see IF people want it , maybe run it at nite ( saturday nite for 1.5-2 hrs tops ) just a sort of primer , get guys into looking at the right way to use compass , topo map and set up their GPS .
So guys could take it or leave It , ie drink piss , and would be up to them .
You are not going to learn good nav in a couple of hrs , BUT you could at least give the guys who want it , some basics & guidance ?
I would make it into 2x 45 mins lessons w/ smoko in between , and make it lite & very informal ,
I think alot of guys could use some good basics , as I think a lot rely on the magic of GPS completely , thats good while your batteries last & GPS sats are online .
Cheers Chris
Is there an assumption that hunters cant nav?..........If gillie wants to run an orienteering gong shoot then he can simply state entrants "must be proficient in close country and open country nav" otherwise don't enter.Gongs shoots are attended by in most parts hunters who don't have to much spare time other than shooting on the day so pre courses wouldn't be practicle.Like gillie has said courses can be set up to keep risks down to a minimum by way of good course planning and marshals if needed.
I think most rely on electronic GPS , too much ,and the younger ones more so , to the extent that they have not bothered to use a paper map & compass ever .
think!!.....I personaly have never used one for hunting and I hunt with plenty of excellent hunters who never use a gps and can find there way around with no problems.I always have a compass in my pouch and ive got mates who use a gps and also have a compass in there pouch.I cant see a problem really.
I think Chris is right Jase. A GPS makes things easy. I use one for nav confirmation and marking points of interest, mainly just for the speed and accuracy.
If you get lost on the coast, apart from some swampy close country we have, ya need to sell your hunting gear and move to Dorkland and open a coffee or hair dresser shop:)
I can still remember how to work out and apply declination and frequently practice ranging targets with a map and compass so I am not past it yet. But I do think a lot of people would be buggered if the batteries died all of a sudden and they didnt bring spares.
"Medium Range Walking Steel Shoot" or the "Hunting Rifle Target Shooting" for me. Not interested in the running around or navigation test shoots.
I think there would be a real following for run n gun type events, especially amongst younger service rifle guys. A good way to really put our AR type rifles through their paces at distance.
Magnetic declination in New Zealand – Magnetic field – Te Ara Encyclopedia of New Zealand
I programed my watch using that to point true north. Basically true north is left of magnetic at about 20deg around Auckland / Waikato
Will be keen on taking part in some of short or medium range shooting events if time and place suits. Will help out on the day if possible but have no experience of these kind of events. Also for what its worth the orientering sounds awesome.
Lately i have been reading up on the Health & Safety in Employment (Adventure Activities) Regulations and the accompanying guidance documents put out by the Ministry of Business, Inovation & Employment. I am not sure a field target shoot can be considered an "Adventure Activity" as defined by the regulations but i am sure it could be argued either way.
Because of these regulations Malcolm and I will only be able to run shoots under one or both of the following conditions:
- No entry fee is charged for the event, or
- The event has to be run under the umbrella of a club or association.
As the majority of shoots we run are run with a NZDA branch this will not change these events. However it does put a serious damper on running some of the events i have discussed in this thread. This is pretty disappointing really. I am not sure i want to run shoots for free - given the work and time invovled that doesn't seem right. The only other way i can run shoots is under a club or association... i might have to start cosying up to a couple of associations other than my current invovlement in the NZDA.
Run it for free and happily accept 'donations' with thanks?
Kind of like school 'donations' (fees). If you don't pay it you don't get your year book.
I am not currently a member of the NZSRA but i had thought they might be a good one to talk to. Pity they don't have a club over in New Plymouth.
Based on the opinions of a couple of people i have talked to, i don't think the NZ NRA will want a bar of the long range steel shoots.
Having run 20+ field shoots we have only ever broken even on two events - and one of them only cause Malcolm managed to win some prize money. We aren't in it to make money but that is with charging entry fees. Can you imagine donations... :thumbsup:
Reading the regulations i wouldn't be surprised if the exemption for clubs, associations and schools get removed sometime in the future. Such is the nanny state we live in.
Hmm maybe I could bring it up at our next club committee meeting. I'm sure there are some BOPSRA guys keen as to shoot LR.
Whatever happened to the Sniper shoot the Service Rifle guys ran at Otorohanga last year Link? That was a good event. Plenty of people there as well.
I have been thinking for a long time that service rifle would be cool to get into. I'd love to get a decent .303 and compete... would need a reloading setup first of course.
Yeah I was more meaning compulsory donations. Just whoever asks from upstairs call them a token of thanks from participants.
I'm pretty sure even if it was a true donation no one would be ballsy enough to show up without paying? Would they?
Pretty sad the direction things like OSH is going in, and then they wonder why people hide or aren't forthcoming with information.
Personally I'm keen for more LR gong shoots like what El B justs put on. Great fun, but then I haven't had try at any of the others yet. Just having some gongs made for me so I can practice.
Good luck Gillie.
yep very keen,compulsory donations all good!
I agree you can not run an event such as this and allow people to shoot for free it is just wrong lots of money is invested into equipment and for people to shoot em up at no cost to them it would be rude to even turn up wihtout having money in the pocket for a entry fee or entry donation, especially if prizes are being offered as well. But I agree the country is becoming too much of a nanny state, next thing you know properties that are used for LR shoots will end up having to become registered as rifle ranges.
Sorry Nibblet, thats old news. Why do you think the NZ NRA doesn't run steel shoots?
So i have a date and a location confirmed but what do you think should be covered in a medium range training event?
My initial thoughts were:
Medium Range Training Event
1 or 2 days. Covering sighting in, chronographing, point blank range, drop data generation, data validation out to 600 yards or so, effective use of the scope recticle, and maybe wind if there is time. Having a scope that can dial is not a prerequisite. This event is basically to encourage people who want to get the most out of the rifle they have or maybe they want to try longer distance shooting. This will just give people a little bit of guidance to shooting at longer distances.
Don't even try and suggest wind.... :thumbsup: