Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Alpine Night Vision NZ


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 102
Like Tree179Likes

Thread: 22lr Resizing/Hollow Pointing Tool

  1. #46
    Member SixtyTen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by No.3 View Post
    I don't think it needs to be a very deep hollow point, just deep enough to start the upset... I wouldn't as an example be looking to drive the hollow point into the driving band section, just deep enough to let it do it's job.

    I suspect the profile with the step between the truncated cone and the driving band section is what will be the difficult bit, it might require something to be firmly grabbing the case and pill and go from there.
    I'm going to have to disagree on the depth of the hollow point. I spent a bit of time yesterday playing around with the really long narrow hollowpoint that I was getting inconsistent results with and found that by adding a small 45degree flair to the nose of the HP, I got excellent expansion on all 5 rounds I tested. The projectile expanded up to around 0.460" and the mushroom curled all the way past the base of the projectile, so the whole thing was maybe 4mm thick. Unfortunately I forgot to take photos and am now at work.

    The downside to this deep hollow point is that it works the projectile a lot and I'm finding not all brands can handle it, so a smaller hollow point with a little less expansion is probably more practical in the real world.
    kristopher and Micky Duck like this.

  2. #47
    Member SixtyTen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    523
    So I have done some costing and have come up with a price of $280 per die set.

    This would include;
    - Die body
    -Adjuster stem and locking ring for the adjuster
    - 22lr shell holder
    - A sizing collar of whatever size you want (.224, .2245, .225 etc)
    - A double ended punch with whatever nose style you want on each end.

    It will not include a die locking ring as you can buy these individually or pillage one from a reloading die you don't use often.

    Extra sizing collars and punches will be available and I can do custom requests within reason on the shape of these.

    The die bodies and adjuster stem will be free machining steel, the punch and shell holder will be 4130 or a high tensile equivalent but not hardened. The sizing collar will be through hardened steel and lapped to a high polish.

    None of the parts will be blued and will rust if not kept oiled, the same as your normal reloading dies.

    Postage is additional and will be at cost.

    Delivery time is likely to be late January, depending on order numbers as I have a very full time job and some other orders already on the go. I will do my best to turn them around in a reasonable time.

    I will need a 10% deposit to help cover materials. If for whatever reason these dies don't happen (I get struck by lightning or die in a skydiving accident) this will be refunded. If you change your mind after materials have been purchased, this will not be refundable unless you find someone to take over your order (details on punch shapes and collar sizes can be changed if they have not been started yet.)

    If your interested, either post here or PM me and I will get in touch with payment details and get details of exactly what you want.

    Mods, if this is not the appropriate area to be doing this type of thing, please let me know.

  3. #48
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Geraldine
    Posts
    24,616
    so what you have discovered re hollow points...is what some of us have been doing all along,all be it more crudely... my "poke a 3" nail in hollow point and twirl it around a few times" creates that very same angled HP with fine front lips while leaving the rest of projectile alone..yours will definately be more consistant,and accurate.
    I BELIEVE the sucess of it comes from making it open fast....I cant see any .22lr opening too fast considering its usual target is no more than 4" through on a good day. if the projectile only went 2" it would still do a good clean killing job.I can take no credit for idea being origonal.my mates from Martin in highschool days did it for ammunition used on hares..I just copied it,soon after winchester Australia brought out power point and made doing so redundant untill recent times.
    kristopher and Moa Hunter like this.
    75/15/10 black powder matters

  4. #49
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    North Canterbury
    Posts
    5,462
    Quote Originally Posted by SixtyTen View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree on the depth of the hollow point. I spent a bit of time yesterday playing around with the really long narrow hollowpoint that I was getting inconsistent results with and found that by adding a small 45degree flair to the nose of the HP, I got excellent expansion on all 5 rounds I tested. The projectile expanded up to around 0.460" and the mushroom curled all the way past the base of the projectile, so the whole thing was maybe 4mm thick. Unfortunately I forgot to take photos and am now at work.

    The downside to this deep hollow point is that it works the projectile a lot and I'm finding not all brands can handle it, so a smaller hollow point with a little less expansion is probably more practical in the real world.
    The 'ideal' mushroom shape is a flat front not rounded. The flat creates a greater radiating shockwave or 'punch' effect
    rossi.45 and Muttonguts like this.

  5. #50
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Quote Originally Posted by SixtyTen View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree on the depth of the hollow point. I spent a bit of time yesterday playing around with the really long narrow hollowpoint that I was getting inconsistent results with and found that by adding a small 45degree flair to the nose of the HP, I got excellent expansion on all 5 rounds I tested. The projectile expanded up to around 0.460" and the mushroom curled all the way past the base of the projectile, so the whole thing was maybe 4mm thick. Unfortunately I forgot to take photos and am now at work.

    The downside to this deep hollow point is that it works the projectile a lot and I'm finding not all brands can handle it, so a smaller hollow point with a little less expansion is probably more practical in the real world.
    Yep - I think we are in agreement just the way to get there is the discussion. Once the projectile has started upsetting, it's away and going provided that there is still something in front of the projectile to expend the energy that it takes to cause the lead to flow. Which in the case of a rabbit might not be much! What I'm saying is that you don't need a deep hollow point for expansion, the tip profile is what does it. A narrow hollow point with a 45deg flare at the leading edge does the same job as a fatter shorter hollow point, the target isn't fussy and it's not a fashion statement! I suspect that there will be a 'magic ratio' of tip diameter to hollow point diameter that gets good upset and expansion going, and if we could magically discover the ratio we'd be away. As you discovered, the more you work the lead especially in harder lead alloys the harder it is to work with the deeper hollow points, - so my personal thing from the little bit of pissing around I did before I gave up and just paid for Powerpoint is that the 'minimum you can do which gets the maximum results you can with ease' is the way to go.

  6. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Moa Hunter View Post
    The 'ideal' mushroom shape is a flat front not rounded. The flat creates a greater radiating shockwave or 'punch' effect
    Yep, and I am thinking this is why the Powerpoint 'truncated cone' profile was/is so successful - a relatively thin wall at the tip of the pill combined with a very flat tip profile along with a wide hollow point that goes back to the parallel 'driving band' section. It's almost a similar profile to the 'controlled expansion' tapered projectiles which were very thin at the tip tapering internally all the way back to start the upsetting and give a good wide curl that followed the rifling profile...
    Moa Hunter likes this.

  7. #52
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Quote Originally Posted by No.3 View Post
    Yep - I think we are in agreement just the way to get there is the discussion. Once the projectile has started upsetting, it's away and going provided that there is still something in front of the projectile to expend the energy that it takes to cause the lead to flow. Which in the case of a rabbit might not be much! What I'm saying is that you don't need a deep hollow point for expansion, the tip profile is what does it. A narrow hollow point with a 45deg flare at the leading edge does the same job as a fatter shorter hollow point, the target isn't fussy and it's not a fashion statement! I suspect that there will be a 'magic ratio' of tip diameter to hollow point diameter that gets good upset and expansion going, and if we could magically discover the ratio we'd be away. As you discovered, the more you work the lead especially in harder lead alloys the harder it is to work with the deeper hollow points, - so my personal thing from the little bit of pissing around I did before I gave up and just paid for Powerpoint is that the 'minimum you can do which gets the maximum results you can with ease' is the way to go.
    I'm going to add to that, what I've observed with the few Superspeed projectiles I've recovered is that the bullet tip was collapsed inwards, closing the tip which then upset back towards the body of the pill. There was 'expansion' but way less than the Powerpoint style pill - and this surprised me considering the bullets were the same brand and probably from the same plant and batch/hardness of lead. What I put it down to, is the tip profile of the Superspeed pills were rounded leaving the edges of the hollow point taking the force of impact inwards when compared to the flat tip or one with a 45deg cone on the hollowpoint. If that makes sense???
    Micky Duck likes this.

  8. #53
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    North Canterbury
    Posts
    5,462
    Quote Originally Posted by No.3 View Post
    Yep, and I am thinking this is why the Powerpoint 'truncated cone' profile was/is so successful - a relatively thin wall at the tip of the pill combined with a very flat tip profile along with a wide hollow point that goes back to the parallel 'driving band' section. It's almost a similar profile to the 'controlled expansion' tapered projectiles which were very thin at the tip tapering internally all the way back to start the upsetting and give a good wide curl that followed the rifling profile...
    You are right, that flat tip profile must make a big difference the same as a non hollowpoint with a big metplat.
    For subs, it does seem that those Ausi winny projectiles have the perfect design ratios. What surprises me is that they have not been used as a scale model for larger diameter projectiles / molds. I would love some in 44 and 458
    Micky Duck likes this.

  9. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    kaiapoi
    Posts
    7,112
    Whilst they never really took of in NZ the remington yellowjackets with the long truncated front and deep hollow point used to mushroom quite well.
    Mind you they were going pretty quick
    Never used them as they were too dear.
    I believe they did some subsonics in the same shape as well.
    Havent seen them in ages
    Micky Duck likes this.

  10. #55
    Member Cordite's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NZ Mainland (Dunedin)
    Posts
    5,522
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingrid 51 View Post
    At risk of hijacking this thread, I find your work very interesting. One of my sons gave me a brick of CCI Standard solids as I do a reasonable amount of .22 shooting on our range. Was thinking of making some rounds into hollow point by drilling a fine hole in the tip to deal with bunnies on the driveway. Set round in correct diam block of wood, lower drill to preset dept etc etc. Dangerous? Comments appreciated.
    Back in the 70s in the US you could get a hand tool to hollowpoint .22LR, basically a tube you "chambered" the round in and from the front end inserted the perfectly fitting drill tool with knurled handle and which had a small drill bit mounted centrally.

    I tried looking for it, this is the best I could find:

    http://www.thegunmag.com/hollowpoint...oes-it-matter/

    A variation:

    https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/...ow_Pointer.pdf
    kristopher and Micky Duck like this.
    An itch ... is ... a desire to scratch

  11. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    spreydon christcurch.
    Posts
    6,951
    Quote Originally Posted by csmiffy View Post
    Whilst they never really took of in NZ the remington yellowjackets with the long truncated front and deep hollow point used to mushroom quite well.
    Mind you they were going pretty quick
    Never used them as they were too dear.
    I believe they did some subsonics in the same shape as well.
    Havent seen them in ages
    Itried the subsonics in my old Toz17 who is extremely catholic in her choice of ammo-what a f...n joke I remember firing one at a big buck jacko sittin pretty for my headshot .to my horror(through the scope) the slug skipped down the road like a bangkok nancy boy on a roll. Im sure it blew him a kiss as it rolled past .another bastard went off like the .303!!!.That crap got binned double bloody quick .never again.

    Winchester rabbit ammo and powerpoints were often humungous hitters in my stirling,one shot literally taking out half a jackos ribcage (smothering dog scope rifle torch and me in assorted blood and guts) an other headshot left the brain cavity as clean as a used boiled egg shell! Irts my all time favourite ammo.
    6x47 and No.3 like this.

  12. #57
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    Back in the 70s in the US you could get a hand tool to hollowpoint .22LR, basically a tube you "chambered" the round in and from the front end inserted the perfectly fitting drill tool with knurled handle and which had a small drill bit mounted centrally.

    I tried looking for it, this is the best I could find:

    http://www.thegunmag.com/hollowpoint...oes-it-matter/

    A variation:

    https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/...ow_Pointer.pdf
    I'm not a fan of drilling for two reasons, one it removes weight from the pill and it's not really possible to do it truly consistently and the other is it means the velocity of the pill goes up which might be enough to push standard and subsonic velocities up to transsonic or supersonic...
    Cordite likes this.

  13. #58
    Member SixtyTen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    523
    I spent some time this afternoon trying to make a punch for a truncated cone nose shape. I can tell you now that this is only going to work on the absolute softest ammo, and even then it's pretty hard on the pill. I got some ok results with the projectile forming, have not test fired it yet.
    The best way I found was to run the hollow point, then a 45degree flair to open the tip of the hollow point, then the cone punch to shape the nose. Not very practical, but it may be possible to do this with one punch. Would be complex to make and might be too much force on the projectile, but it might work. I'm going to make a few of these the hard way to begin with and test them in wet pack before I spend any more time on another version of the punch. The theory of the skinny nose section allowing rapid expansion makes sense to me, so it will be interesting to see if that plays out.

    Name:  IMG_20221122_183716504_HDR.jpg
Views: 683
Size:  4.69 MB

  14. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Looks golden, that much I can say. If that will work on any form of solid round nose ammo, that looks like it will be amazing. I am wondering if the 'press dies' idea may be a little overcomplicated - I'll send you a message with my thoughts.

  15. #60
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    628
    Any before and after pics of accuracy?
    Watching with lots of interest here too

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Hollow Point 22lr to reduce Ricochets
    By SixtyTen in forum Varminting and Small Game Hunting
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04-07-2024, 07:28 PM
  2. 22lr subsonic Hollow point
    By rambo-6mmrem in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 08-09-2020, 11:50 PM
  3. Replies: 44
    Last Post: 26-05-2015, 11:58 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!