Thread: 22lr Resizing/Hollow Pointing Tool

Originally Posted by No.3

I don't think it needs to be a very deep hollow point, just deep enough to start the upset... I wouldn't as an example be looking to drive the hollow point into the driving band section, just deep enough to let it do it's job.

I suspect the profile with the step between the truncated cone and the driving band section is what will be the difficult bit, it might require something to be firmly grabbing the case and pill and go from there.

I'm going to have to disagree on the depth of the hollow point. I spent a bit of time yesterday playing around with the really long narrow hollowpoint that I was getting inconsistent results with and found that by adding a small 45degree flair to the nose of the HP, I got excellent expansion on all 5 rounds I tested. The projectile expanded up to around 0.460" and the mushroom curled all the way past the base of the projectile, so the whole thing was maybe 4mm thick. Unfortunately I forgot to take photos and am now at work.

The downside to this deep hollow point is that it works the projectile a lot and I'm finding not all brands can handle it, so a smaller hollow point with a little less expansion is probably more practical in the real world.

So I have done some costing and have come up with a price of $280 per die set.

This would include;
- Die body
-Adjuster stem and locking ring for the adjuster
- 22lr shell holder
- A sizing collar of whatever size you want (.224, .2245, .225 etc)
- A double ended punch with whatever nose style you want on each end.

It will not include a die locking ring as you can buy these individually or pillage one from a reloading die you don't use often.

Extra sizing collars and punches will be available and I can do custom requests within reason on the shape of these.

The die bodies and adjuster stem will be free machining steel, the punch and shell holder will be 4130 or a high tensile equivalent but not hardened. The sizing collar will be through hardened steel and lapped to a high polish.

None of the parts will be blued and will rust if not kept oiled, the same as your normal reloading dies.

Postage is additional and will be at cost.

Delivery time is likely to be late January, depending on order numbers as I have a very full time job and some other orders already on the go. I will do my best to turn them around in a reasonable time.

I will need a 10% deposit to help cover materials. If for whatever reason these dies don't happen (I get struck by lightning or die in a skydiving accident) this will be refunded. If you change your mind after materials have been purchased, this will not be refundable unless you find someone to take over your order (details on punch shapes and collar sizes can be changed if they have not been started yet.)

If your interested, either post here or PM me and I will get in touch with payment details and get details of exactly what you want.

Mods, if this is not the appropriate area to be doing this type of thing, please let me know.

so what you have discovered re hollow points...is what some of us have been doing all along,all be it more crudely... my "poke a 3" nail in hollow point and twirl it around a few times" creates that very same angled HP with fine front lips while leaving the rest of projectile alone..yours will definately be more consistant,and accurate.
I BELIEVE the sucess of it comes from making it open fast....I cant see any .22lr opening too fast considering its usual target is no more than 4" through on a good day. if the projectile only went 2" it would still do a good clean killing job.I can take no credit for idea being origonal.my mates from Martin in highschool days did it for ammunition used on hares..I just copied it,soon after winchester Australia brought out power point and made doing so redundant untill recent times.

Originally Posted by SixtyTen

I'm going to have to disagree on the depth of the hollow point. I spent a bit of time yesterday playing around with the really long narrow hollowpoint that I was getting inconsistent results with and found that by adding a small 45degree flair to the nose of the HP, I got excellent expansion on all 5 rounds I tested. The projectile expanded up to around 0.460" and the mushroom curled all the way past the base of the projectile, so the whole thing was maybe 4mm thick. Unfortunately I forgot to take photos and am now at work.

The downside to this deep hollow point is that it works the projectile a lot and I'm finding not all brands can handle it, so a smaller hollow point with a little less expansion is probably more practical in the real world.

The 'ideal' mushroom shape is a flat front not rounded. The flat creates a greater radiating shockwave or 'punch' effect

Originally Posted by SixtyTen

I'm going to have to disagree on the depth of the hollow point. I spent a bit of time yesterday playing around with the really long narrow hollowpoint that I was getting inconsistent results with and found that by adding a small 45degree flair to the nose of the HP, I got excellent expansion on all 5 rounds I tested. The projectile expanded up to around 0.460" and the mushroom curled all the way past the base of the projectile, so the whole thing was maybe 4mm thick. Unfortunately I forgot to take photos and am now at work.

The downside to this deep hollow point is that it works the projectile a lot and I'm finding not all brands can handle it, so a smaller hollow point with a little less expansion is probably more practical in the real world.

Yep - I think we are in agreement just the way to get there is the discussion. Once the projectile has started upsetting, it's away and going provided that there is still something in front of the projectile to expend the energy that it takes to cause the lead to flow. Which in the case of a rabbit might not be much! What I'm saying is that you don't need a deep hollow point for expansion, the tip profile is what does it. A narrow hollow point with a 45deg flare at the leading edge does the same job as a fatter shorter hollow point, the target isn't fussy and it's not a fashion statement! I suspect that there will be a 'magic ratio' of tip diameter to hollow point diameter that gets good upset and expansion going, and if we could magically discover the ratio we'd be away. As you discovered, the more you work the lead especially in harder lead alloys the harder it is to work with the deeper hollow points, - so my personal thing from the little bit of pissing around I did before I gave up and just paid for Powerpoint is that the 'minimum you can do which gets the maximum results you can with ease' is the way to go.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

The 'ideal' mushroom shape is a flat front not rounded. The flat creates a greater radiating shockwave or 'punch' effect

Yep, and I am thinking this is why the Powerpoint 'truncated cone' profile was/is so successful - a relatively thin wall at the tip of the pill combined with a very flat tip profile along with a wide hollow point that goes back to the parallel 'driving band' section. It's almost a similar profile to the 'controlled expansion' tapered projectiles which were very thin at the tip tapering internally all the way back to start the upsetting and give a good wide curl that followed the rifling profile...

Originally Posted by No.3

Yep - I think we are in agreement just the way to get there is the discussion. Once the projectile has started upsetting, it's away and going provided that there is still something in front of the projectile to expend the energy that it takes to cause the lead to flow. Which in the case of a rabbit might not be much! What I'm saying is that you don't need a deep hollow point for expansion, the tip profile is what does it. A narrow hollow point with a 45deg flare at the leading edge does the same job as a fatter shorter hollow point, the target isn't fussy and it's not a fashion statement! I suspect that there will be a 'magic ratio' of tip diameter to hollow point diameter that gets good upset and expansion going, and if we could magically discover the ratio we'd be away. As you discovered, the more you work the lead especially in harder lead alloys the harder it is to work with the deeper hollow points, - so my personal thing from the little bit of pissing around I did before I gave up and just paid for Powerpoint is that the 'minimum you can do which gets the maximum results you can with ease' is the way to go.

I'm going to add to that, what I've observed with the few Superspeed projectiles I've recovered is that the bullet tip was collapsed inwards, closing the tip which then upset back towards the body of the pill. There was 'expansion' but way less than the Powerpoint style pill - and this surprised me considering the bullets were the same brand and probably from the same plant and batch/hardness of lead. What I put it down to, is the tip profile of the Superspeed pills were rounded leaving the edges of the hollow point taking the force of impact inwards when compared to the flat tip or one with a 45deg cone on the hollowpoint. If that makes sense???

Originally Posted by No.3

Yep, and I am thinking this is why the Powerpoint 'truncated cone' profile was/is so successful - a relatively thin wall at the tip of the pill combined with a very flat tip profile along with a wide hollow point that goes back to the parallel 'driving band' section. It's almost a similar profile to the 'controlled expansion' tapered projectiles which were very thin at the tip tapering internally all the way back to start the upsetting and give a good wide curl that followed the rifling profile...

You are right, that flat tip profile must make a big difference the same as a non hollowpoint with a big metplat.
For subs, it does seem that those Ausi winny projectiles have the perfect design ratios. What surprises me is that they have not been used as a scale model for larger diameter projectiles / molds. I would love some in 44 and 458

Whilst they never really took of in NZ the remington yellowjackets with the long truncated front and deep hollow point used to mushroom quite well.
Mind you they were going pretty quick
Never used them as they were too dear.
I believe they did some subsonics in the same shape as well.
Havent seen them in ages

Originally Posted by Ingrid 51

At risk of hijacking this thread, I find your work very interesting. One of my sons gave me a brick of CCI Standard solids as I do a reasonable amount of .22 shooting on our range. Was thinking of making some rounds into hollow point by drilling a fine hole in the tip to deal with bunnies on the driveway. Set round in correct diam block of wood, lower drill to preset dept etc etc. Dangerous? Comments appreciated.

Back in the 70s in the US you could get a hand tool to hollowpoint .22LR, basically a tube you "chambered" the round in and from the front end inserted the perfectly fitting drill tool with knurled handle and which had a small drill bit mounted centrally.

I tried looking for it, this is the best I could find:

http://www.thegunmag.com/hollowpoint...oes-it-matter/

A variation:

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/...ow_Pointer.pdf

Originally Posted by csmiffy

Whilst they never really took of in NZ the remington yellowjackets with the long truncated front and deep hollow point used to mushroom quite well.
Mind you they were going pretty quick
Never used them as they were too dear.
I believe they did some subsonics in the same shape as well.
Havent seen them in ages

Itried the subsonics in my old Toz17 who is extremely catholic in her choice of ammo-what a f...n joke I remember firing one at a big buck jacko sittin pretty for my headshot .to my horror(through the scope) the slug skipped down the road like a bangkok nancy boy on a roll. Im sure it blew him a kiss as it rolled past .another bastard went off like the .303!!!.That crap got binned double bloody quick .never again.

Winchester rabbit ammo and powerpoints were often humungous hitters in my stirling,one shot literally taking out half a jackos ribcage (smothering dog scope rifle torch and me in assorted blood and guts) an other headshot left the brain cavity as clean as a used boiled egg shell! Irts my all time favourite ammo.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Back in the 70s in the US you could get a hand tool to hollowpoint .22LR, basically a tube you "chambered" the round in and from the front end inserted the perfectly fitting drill tool with knurled handle and which had a small drill bit mounted centrally.

I tried looking for it, this is the best I could find:

http://www.thegunmag.com/hollowpoint...oes-it-matter/

A variation:

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/...ow_Pointer.pdf

I'm not a fan of drilling for two reasons, one it removes weight from the pill and it's not really possible to do it truly consistently and the other is it means the velocity of the pill goes up which might be enough to push standard and subsonic velocities up to transsonic or supersonic...

I spent some time this afternoon trying to make a punch for a truncated cone nose shape. I can tell you now that this is only going to work on the absolute softest ammo, and even then it's pretty hard on the pill. I got some ok results with the projectile forming, have not test fired it yet.
The best way I found was to run the hollow point, then a 45degree flair to open the tip of the hollow point, then the cone punch to shape the nose. Not very practical, but it may be possible to do this with one punch. Would be complex to make and might be too much force on the projectile, but it might work. I'm going to make a few of these the hard way to begin with and test them in wet pack before I spend any more time on another version of the punch. The theory of the skinny nose section allowing rapid expansion makes sense to me, so it will be interesting to see if that plays out.

Looks golden, that much I can say. If that will work on any form of solid round nose ammo, that looks like it will be amazing. I am wondering if the 'press dies' idea may be a little overcomplicated - I'll send you a message with my thoughts.

Any before and after pics of accuracy?
Watching with lots of interest here too