Pump Action STEN MKII

I've got an idea for a pump-action STEN MKII 9mm that uses Glock 19 10rd mags. as far as i can tell it meets all the gun laws and uses no banned parts. breaks down and stows like the original, no pistol grip, and is legal length when assembled. Anyone know of a gunsmith who might want to try making a sample? should be a cheap and easy project and it would be nice if it was NZ made. I'm sure there would be a market for it if the retail price was reasonable.

seems all the new cool guns coming in are either held up by the police, sold out and/or way to expensive. i don't know of any gun cheaper to make than a STEN. lockup is similar to 870 and the only machining is the 9mm barrel blank and the bolt to the same dimensions as the Glock slide. rest of it is off the "mitre 10" shelf tube steel, metal stock and a few stamped pieces. still needs the spring to keep the stock attached but that will assist the forward pump (like the GBC sonic pump AR with i think is now banned due to using AR lower).

yes, it is rough but its not like i'm going to get my IMI UZI carbine back from the cops so i'm looking for alternatives that won't break the bank and anger the wife. I approached David Tipple about having a semi-auto STEN made by his chinese mfr several years ago but he said no one wants a 9mm carbine. I think times have changed. If Gun City can charge $1500 for a .22 that sells in the rest of the world for $300 maybe its time for NZ to make our own guns. We can even call it the STENZ! lol

(yes i know the pic is of the original smg. just imagine the handguard as the pump action and a piticanny rail on top of the receiver)

Meanwhile i'm pateintly waiting for a ruger AR bolt action carbine, Troy PAR, and Kriss Defiance DMK22. not pre-ordering as i've lost money to g*****nz who f**ked us all.

I've got some 7" rifled 9mm press-in barreled inserts for 12ga shotguns that if a gunsmith wants to copy and sell i'd be willing to work with.

The original has no lockup of course and a fixed firing pin so your design needs a more complicated trigger and bolt assembly. Stenz have already been made the Auckland gas company's workshop made them during ww2 as they had quite a bit of experience working with pipe.
The idea sounded interesting till i read the picatinny rail bit that would just be wrong wrong wrong.
Also gun making needs one if those new doohickey in the interests of public safety super duper endorsements and expensive permits doesnt it?

May as well just resurrect the Mitchell. A true NZ designed SMG that already uses a barrel shroud for cocking it. You couldn’t keep hold of it though as it cycled, but if it was converted to a pump, no problem. Couple of originals on display in the Waiouru Museum...

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

The original has no lockup of course and a fixed firing pin so your design needs a more complicated trigger and bolt assembly. Stenz have already been made the Auckland gas company's workshop made them during ww2 as they had quite a bit of experience working with pipe.
The idea sounded interesting till i read the picatinny rail bit that would just be wrong wrong wrong.
Also gun making needs one if those new doohickey in the interests of public safety super duper endorsements and expensive permits doesnt it?

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You might not be able to use an AR bolt face either.

Tipping block simplest answer for a straight run action

like

i think someone on here was making a bolt 9mm looked pretty well done the last time i saw it

If the new Tentacle laws make it through we wont be able to legally make anything.

The commissioner will have its say on what can be made or not and how many per year. That is what it says in the new law.

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Originally Posted by Friwi

The commissioner will have its say on what can be made or not and how many per year. That is what it says in the new law.

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Crack up. The original perpetrators of Rogernomics and the "free markets" have come full circle

It appears the lunatics are running the asylum

seems the biggest hurdle to overcome is getting approval to manufacture it in NZ. seems the fix is getting it made in china and having it submitted to the police for approval. design improved......cocking not only loads but resets the trigger and firing pin is floating. bolt is locked by sear during fire. firing pin is attached to a carrier ala UZI model B carbine. Heck! there's another idea!.........even simpler......a pump action UZI carbine! all you need to do is attach the bolt to the handguard which locks upon cocking and eliminate the recoil spring!

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Originally Posted by nowool

seems the biggest hurdle to overcome is getting approval to manufacture it in NZ. seems the fix is getting it made in china and having it submitted to the police for approval. design improved......cocking not only loads but resets the trigger and firing pin is floating. bolt is locked by sear during fire. firing pin is attached to a carrier ala UZI model B carbine. Heck! there's another idea!.........even simpler......a pump action UZI carbine! all you need to do is attach the bolt to the handguard which locks upon cocking and eliminate the recoil spring!

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If you do get it made in China then be prepared for a norinco or Ali express special popping up quickly

amazing how much controversy this brings up in posts and private emails........its simple......just link the bolt to the handguard, put a spring on the disconector and your are away laughing like larry......most simple pump gun you can make and looks historically correct! make it from a kit or from scratch and you have a $150 9mm carbine.

Hello hello hello! What do we have here then? You boys making trouble again!:ORLY:

She won’t like that one little bit:XD:

Get in there:P:thumbsup::XD:

just dont paint i black that will not be safe for nz

The Sten layout is not worth it as (a) you can't have big long magazines anymore and (b) avoiding free standing pistol grips is a non-issue now.

Having a giant return spring (or just room for one) will also make it a potential semi / full auto convertible gun. Real potential for trouble.

The lower pressure 9mm is definitely more suitable for home projects compared to centrefire rifle cartridges. But better design something less SMG cool looking from the ground up and use more of the magic >30" legal rifle length for barrel.

IMHO-if you produced one and Costers Cavalry sighted it ,those in power would make it illegal before you could fart .lets face it anything remotely resembling a military firearm scares the shit out of this mangy mob running our once proud nation. However even if its declared legal youd almost certainly guarantee CC would ensure their regulations etc made your business borderline or personally unbearable .Alas as has been blatantly proven this is modern reality.
In fact id go as far to politely request Gundocs opinion on the issue.
DO not get me wrong -its not personal merely my observations.

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Originally Posted by kotuku

IMHO-if you produced one and Costers Cavalry sighted it ,those in power would make it illegal before you could fart .lets face it anything remotely resembling a military firearm scares the shit out of this mangy mob running our once proud nation. However even if its declared legal youd almost certainly guarantee CC would ensure their regulations etc made your business borderline or personally unbearable .Alas as has been blatantly proven this is modern reality.
In fact id go as far to politely request Gundocs opinion on the issue.
DO not get me wrong -its not personal merely my observations.

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@gundoc

Attachment 141151

If such a useless piece of equipment was made in NZ it would have to be a locked breech 10 shot repeater, either turn bolt or other form of locking. It would have to be striker or hammer fired, and be over 762mm long. In short it would not remotely resemble a Sten, apart from cheap and flimsy manufacture. Legally (at present), no problem to manufacture as an individual for their own use, or by a dealer for resale but that would all change if the current bill in parliament is passed. A 9mm carbine would be a reasonably useful short-range item for small to medium game, but something built like a Sten would be false economy. Having owned all models of Sten from the Mk I to the Mk V, plus a few other clones and adaptations, I can assure you none of them were ever anything better than 'adequate'!

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Originally Posted by gundoc

If such a useless piece of equipment was made in NZ it would have to be a locked breech 10 shot repeater, either turn bolt or other form of locking. It would have to be striker or hammer fired, and be over 762mm long. In short it would not remotely resemble a Sten, apart from cheap and flimsy manufacture. Legally (at present), no problem to manufacture as an individual for their own use, or by a dealer for resale but that would all change if the current bill in parliament is passed. A 9mm carbine would be a reasonably useful short-range item for small to medium game, but something built like a Sten would be false economy. Having owned all models of Sten from the Mk I to the Mk V, plus a few other clones and adaptations, I can assure you none of them were ever anything better than 'adequate'!

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So I take it, if someone wishes to copy a gun and make it, then it would be best if they picked a decent gun to copy......That would explain why I never saw a kit car for a Morris or a Skoda. These are not things anyone wants to copy- they dont really want a real one to start with....

I'd be wary of making or owning any pump centre fire at the moment. A nine mill bolt would be a fun plinker though.
Sten guns were only designed to be adequate. "Point at group of enemy and spray" If the Germans followed through after Dunkirk the poms would have been fucked without it. Out of interest what were the poms using for SMG's prior to the Sten?

Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk

thompsons

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Originally Posted by gundoc

If such a useless piece of equipment was made in NZ it would have to be a locked breech 10 shot repeater, either turn bolt or other form of locking. It would have to be striker or hammer fired, and be over 762mm long. In short it would not remotely resemble a Sten, apart from cheap and flimsy manufacture. Legally (at present), no problem to manufacture as an individual for their own use, or by a dealer for resale but that would all change if the current bill in parliament is passed. A 9mm carbine would be a reasonably useful short-range item for small to medium game, but something built like a Sten would be false economy. Having owned all models of Sten from the Mk I to the Mk V, plus a few other clones and adaptations, I can assure you none of them were ever anything better than 'adequate'!

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Suppose in dire 1941 when fighting for survival 'adequate' made you feel really good.

The adequate design is part of a bigger picture of how the British did things. I read about the "boffin" technological warfare in WW2, suitcase radios etc. The British had a policy of "You have 3 months to develop it, and what you can come up with is what we'll produce!" On the other side, Germans took too long perfecting their designs with top brass also keeping on "improving" specifications .... so most of their otherwise brilliant developments were of zero to limited use as they did not enter mass production. An obvious example are the many Volkssturm simplified rifles made which cost a lot in R&D and tooling setup, but which all used StuGw-44 magazines. Ian 'Gun Jesus' at Forgotten Weapons pointed out that it would have been far more effective just to make more StuGw-44s.

Anyway, I digress. I'm interested in your take on the Patchett/Sterling SMG versus the Sten, they being of similar vintage.

integrally suppressed with a ported barrel would be cool as hell

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Suppose in dire 1941 when fighting for survival 'adequate' made you feel really good.

The adequate design is part of a bigger picture of how the British did things. I read about the "boffin" technological warfare in WW2, suitcase radios etc. The British had a policy of "You have 3 months to develop it, and what you can come up with is what we'll produce!" On the other side, Germans took too long perfecting their designs with top brass also keeping on "improving" specifications .... so most of their otherwise brilliant developments were of zero to limited use as they did not enter mass production. An obvious example are the many Volkssturm simplified rifles made which cost a lot in R&D and tooling setup, but which all used StuGw-44 magazines. Ian 'Gun Jesus' at Forgotten Weapons pointed out that it would have been far more effective just to make more StuGw-44s.

Anyway, I digress. I'm interested in your take on the Patchett/Sterling SMG versus the Sten, they being of similar vintage.

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Although the Sten and the Patchett/Sterling guns have the same operating principle they are as different as chalk and cheese. Whilst the stamped-out Sten was a clever product of dire emergency and quite adequate for the short-term purpose, The Patchett/Sterling guns were designed and built to last, and work a lot more reliably. The first thing is the magazine, the Sten having a troublesome single feed, double stack system in a flimsy housing that with a little use flopped around like a dick in a top hat, and the magazine side walls were susceptable to dents and dings which caused jams. The Sterling mags were designed with stepped side walls for strength and were curved to suit the slight taper on the cartridges. That coupled with the double feed, double stack system and the unique and friction-free roller follower made them the most reliable SMG magazine ever made. Other Patchett/Sterling features that led to them to being considered the 'Rolls Royce' of SMG's include the trigger mechanism machined from solid bar and properly heat-treated, a bolt that incorporated crud-scraping grooves, a sturdier body, improved stock and better ergonomics, better sights, stronger ejector, better magazine catch, etc, etc. Sterlings that were made in the 1950's are still going strong today, and they remained in production well into the 1980's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-PmLxkOmaM

5.5 man hours to produce thats pretty impressive

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Originally Posted by nowool

seems the biggest hurdle to overcome is getting approval to manufacture it in NZ. seems the fix is getting it made in china and having it submitted to the police for approval. design improved......cocking not only loads but resets the trigger and firing pin is floating. bolt is locked by sear during fire. firing pin is attached to a carrier ala UZI model B carbine. Heck! there's another idea!.........even simpler......a pump action UZI carbine! all you need to do is attach the bolt to the handguard which locks upon cocking and eliminate the recoil spring!

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I maunfactured a semi auto sten and submitted it to the police several years ago. After 6 months it came back as a big no with the excuse "people will fit orig parts to make it an auto gun" even though it had been modified to prevent that. And that is the stock answer that police will always give on toys like this. They dont want them in the public domain.

with all the laws and the gun market i think a pump action sten would actually sell in NZ.. heck, you have 9mm bolt actions for 4 grand and .308 Enfield's for 4500! we could offer it as a kit personally my gun price in nz is 1500. nz outside that you are pissing away money based on overseas prices.

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Originally Posted by nowool

with all the laws and the gun market i think a pump action sten would actually sell in NZ.. heck, you have 9mm bolt actions for 4 grand and .308 Enfield's for 4500! we could offer it as a kit personally my gun price in nz is 1500. nz outside that you are pissing away money based on overseas prices.

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Banned already

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Originally Posted by Bill999

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-PmLxkOmaM 5.5 man hours to produce thats pretty impressive

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PFFT... That's forever. The Germans copied AND SIMPLIFIED the Sten with the end result being one man hour to make.

https://tinyurl.com/tuzketzu

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

PFFT... That's forever. The Germans copied AND SIMPLIFIED the Sten with the end result being one man hour to make.

https://tinyurl.com/tuzketzu

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The one man hour included retaining the select fire of the Sten. Why go to that trouble?

To cover the eventuality of running low on ammo usually.