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Thread: Zastava 7.62x39 Restoration

  1. #16
    Member Wingman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    lilgun could well be your new best friend.....got a mate to run quickload figures for me and it works rather well.
    Im listening... what sort of speed are you getting from lilgun? The 2207 is maxing out at 2150 in the 15.5" tube.
    I went with the TMKs as they were designed specifically for .300BLK. Sierra knew they had to shoot well with a jump from AR15 mag lengths to the long BLK throat designed to shoot long 240gr bullets. They seem to jump fine in this chamber too. Like the 125gr Nosler they have to be seated down to the ogive to fit the Zastava internal mag.

  2. #17
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    Yes 19 to 22 grains of Lilgun are ok loads for this projectile.
    Estimated velocity 2100 - 2300 fps
    Be careful when creeping up past 21 grains


    Cartridge : 7.62 x 39 (.308) Elvis
    Bullet : .308, 125, Nosler BalTip 30125
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.200 inch or 55.88 mm
    Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
    Powder : Hodgdon Lil'Gun

    Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
    incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
    CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

    Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
    % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

    -06.0 68 18.80 2117 1244 30993 3817 100.0 1.267
    -04.0 70 19.20 2151 1284 32642 3861 100.0 1.241
    -02.0 71 19.60 2184 1324 34369 3906 100.0 1.216
    +00.0 73 20.00 2218 1365 36180 3949 100.0 1.192
    +02.0 74 20.40 2250 1405 38076 3993 100.0 1.167
    +04.0 76 20.80 2282 1446 40062 4035 100.0 1.142
    +06.0 77 21.20 2314 1487 42142 4077 100.0 1.118
    +08.0 79 21.60 2346 1528 44321 4118 100.0 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
    +10.0 80 22.00 2377 1569 46602 4159 100.0 1.073 ! Near Maximum !

    Results caused by 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
    Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
    +Ba 73 20.00 2282 1446 43243 3799 100.0 1.117 ! Near Maximum !



    I dont own a chronygraph

  3. #18
    Member Wingman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pommy View Post
    Got about 500gms of CFE BLK if you want to give that a go too. It got me up to 2600fps in a Howa Mini.
    What barrel length is your Howa? Hodgdons load data put a 24" barrel with a max charge at 2550fps

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    I went with 2207 after trying 2206H and BM8208 which only gave 1950fps so an even faster powder in this short barrel may claw back a bit more velocity. Correct me if Im wrong but isnt CFE Black a slower burn speed than those Ive tried? Its not a powder Ive ever used.

    Its a bit of a trade off with case capacity in this load because the bullets are seated very deep meaning I cant get close to a max charge in any of the bulkier slower powders which means I need smaller charges of hotter powder.

  4. #19
    Member Wingman's Avatar
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    Thanks for that @Micky Duck
    That data looks very similar to the speeds and pressure Im getting with 2207 in a shorter barrel so Im not sure I could safely gain a lot more with it.
    Lilgun makes me nervous after toying with it in my .22 TCM, 10.5gr was a great load with no pressure signs then10.8gr would blow the primer and ass out of the case!
    It spikes quickly with very small increments.
    My current max listed load of 24gr of 2207 behind the 125gr TMK shows no sign of pressure but I have tried pushing it past that. 2205 might be a more stable faster burn to try in this shorter barrel. I don't want to kill brass but it would be nice to get every bit of energy I can get from it.
    H335 was another listed powder that shows good speed but I normally avoid dirty temp unstable ball powders.

  5. #20
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    as said I dont do the chronicgraph thing..... I didnt push loads till pressure signs,just picked load and shot stuff...in case of bush range reds...very dead.

  6. #21
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    Nah CFE BLK is quicker than H335/BM8208/AR2206H. Very close to AA1680 which on Powder equivalents - ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition is roughly around AR2205/AR2207. Not to be confused with CFE223.

    I think the Howa was chopped to 15" but I might be remembering that number from my CZ527 which had a 18.5" tube before it became a Grendel. Lots of room in the mags to load them longer and no pressure signs past 30gr.

    Lyman manual I have lists H335 as their most accurate powder so I gave it a go in the CZ. Velocity lagged behind 2207 by about 100fps at max loads and the fireball was huge. Too slow. I'd steer clear of anything slower than AR2219 (which works great with 150's btw) for that reason.

  7. #22
    Member Wingman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pommy View Post
    Nah CFE BLK is quicker than H335/BM8208/AR2206H. Very close to AA1680 which on Powder equivalents - ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition is roughly around AR2205/AR2207. Not to be confused with CFE223.

    I think the Howa was chopped to 15" but I might be remembering that number from my CZ527 which had a 18.5" tube before it became a Grendel. Lots of room in the mags to load them longer and no pressure signs past 30gr.
    What sort of fill does 30gr of CFE Black give you?
    Is it a fine extrusion powder or ball?
    If you check out my pics of the loaded 125gr TMK v/s the one sitting beside the cartridge and you can see it is seated well below the case shoulder taking up case volume. I think if I could climb over max loads in my deep seated rounds with that CFE black it would compress and give pressure much sooner than yours loaded out long.

    24gr of 2207 kisses the seated projectile but doesnt compress it, there is still a slight rattle.

  8. #23
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    Ball powder. Can't recall if my loads were compressed. A quick Google suggests the vmd for CFE BLK is .0659 vs .075 for 2207. So BLK is more dense.

    24gr AR2207 * 0.075 = 1.8cc's. 1.8cc's * 0.0659 = 27.3gr CFE BLK for equivalent volume.

  9. #24
    Member Wingman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pommy View Post
    Ball powder. Can't recall if my loads were compressed. A quick Google suggests the vmd for CFE BLK is .0659 vs .075 for 2207. So BLK is more dense.

    24gr AR2207 * 0.075 = 1.8cc's. 1.8cc's * 0.0659 = 27.3gr CFE BLK for equivalent volume.
    Thanks for that, good info

  10. #25
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    Flick me a message if you want to give it a go. Pretty confident you could gain a fair bit of speed.

  11. #26
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    Ok... so Im an idiot.. in a moment of distraction I have used the wrong powder data!

    I knew something wasnt right, many years ago I had a 16" AK47 that I loaded for that had no problems getting over 2400fps with 2207. I kept asking myself, what has changed? 1/2 an inch less barrel length surely wasnt the issue.

    Nope, I had used Hodgdons load data which I had saved as a shortcut on my phone knowing that ADI AR2207 is the same powder re-labeled for Hodgdon as H4198.
    However at a glance I selected IMR 4198 which has the same numbers but different burn rates. The listed max charge for the IMR was 24gr which seamed light when I was testing.
    After checking ADI's website I realised what Id done.

    So with a new found max charge of 26.5gr I went back to the chrono and settled on a charge of 25.5gr @2350fps.
    26gr only gained 10fps so the 2207 is getting a full burn at about that in my short barrel.

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    Can anyone explain to me why IMR shares the sane numbers as many of the ADI/Hodgdon powders but have very different load data?

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    Last edited by Wingman; 19-02-2020 at 08:24 AM.

  12. #27
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    I had a Howa Mini in 7.62x39 for a while too. I ran mine with 125's (both BT's and Speers, no noticeable difference) and was getting average MV's of right on 2500 fps with 30 Gns of CFE BLK with no pressure signs. According to the boys at the 300BLK forum CFE BLK performs "best" with a little bit of compression and while I haven't used a lot of it I'd say its probly a valid observation.

  13. #28
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    @Dama dama
    Shes all finished.. although it could do with the barrel being dumped in a hot blue tank which I will have done at some stage to give it a darker more durable blue than my make shift cold blue job.
    The M8 compact Leupold arrived today which I gave a good clean and touched up the anodizing where needed. Great little combo. A nice short and light bush basher for sure with enough grunt to take down anything in range.

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    Last edited by Wingman; 21-02-2020 at 07:24 PM.

  14. #29
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    Glad scope turned up alright. Perfect on that rifle. While thing looks great, nice work on the wood work.
    "The generalist hunter and angler is a well-fed mofo" - Steven Rinella

  15. #30
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    now that is just downright sexy.....3x loopy I take it???

 

 

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