Thread: Another disappointing sentence

Originally Posted by MarkN

I often wonder how the general public, can read an article in the news and then form concrete opinions, on a judicial matter, without having attended the hearings, the court case and the sentencing and surely not being in possession, of all the facts.

Much like I can form opinions, of other people's driving skills whilst assuming, that I'm the best driver ever.

However I do know, never having been a Judge or a lawyer, that those professions, have years and years and years of education, designed to allow them to arrive at the best conclusions.

While I agree that we don't have all the facts - the defendant wasn't cooperative, there is a level of potential harm that still exists from other firearms that could have been diverted and - to quote the article: "Two people were killed and 10 others injured".....and home detention is meted out as punishment? Really?

I thought FAL holders didn't sell guns to criminals?

...I'll get my coat

I thought they couldnt grind serial numbers off

The sentence should also be a deterent to others contemplating the same thing. Not me, but if theres good money in it and thats all you get why wouldnt you

exactly Blip good on ya there is no deterrent if Judges are going to hand down extremely weak sentences and thats the point most of us are trying to make

This is an interesting perspective: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/...out-deterrence

Originally Posted by Tahr

This is an interesting perspective: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/...out-deterrence

Possibly - one of the things that it doesn't discuss is the question "Does a home detention sentence have any sort of deterrence effect?" From the limited experience of people on home detention that I have, it really isn't much cheaper to the crown and actually requires more monitoring and support for supplies etc. I'd suggest some people on a HomeD sentence would just carry on with life as per, but a lot of them would play by the rules.

I suspect the issue that we are having as licence holders is that there really appears to be no form of recognition for a crime which enables or facilitates more crimes, and more violent crimes to occur at that. It's not so much I think the lack of a deterrent effect that pisses people off so much, but that the people that ignore the rules in this space could be an accessory to murder but are getting away with a couple of months staying at home funded.

Originally Posted by No.3

Possibly - one of the things that it doesn't discuss is the question "Does a home detention sentence have any sort of deterrence effect?" From the limited experience of people on home detention that I have, it really isn't much cheaper to the crown and actually requires more monitoring and support for supplies etc. I'd suggest some people on a HomeD sentence would just carry on with life as per, but a lot of them would play by the rules.

I suspect the issue that we are having as licence holders is that there really appears to be no form of recognition for a crime which enables or facilitates more crimes, and more violent crimes to occur at that. It's not so much I think the lack of a deterrent effect that pisses people off so much, but that the people that ignore the rules in this space could be an accessory to murder but are getting away with a couple of months staying at home funded.

^^^^THIS!!!^^^^

I have known 2 x district court judges. One a mates dad. One a family member by marriage. Both were pretty much divorced from reality: from the life of a working man/woman. both carried on life with other family members as though we were below their station in life. other judges may of course be different I imagine. But my personal experience, and changes to the judicial landscape over the past 2 decades means I now hold their musings with a deal of disdain and possibly now trepidation. Sentences like the one we are discussing help reinforce my thoughts.

Well I guess I should have been more clear, lawyering is wot yer do before yer get to Judging.

I general terms, Judges are drawn from the better of the Lawyers.

Like a chippy could progress from hammer hand, to builder, to Master Builder. He's not gonna be a Master Builder if he's crap with the hammer.

My mistake when originally talking about Lawyers and Judges was that I assumed that people would know that the Judges are usually made from very good and honourable Lawyers .

Unlike in the states where you can be a Judge or a Sheriff by being voted for, qualifications not required.

Originally Posted by MarkN

Well I guess I should have been more clear, lawyering is wot yer do before yer get to Judging.

I general terms, Judges are drawn from the better of the Lawyers.

Like a chippy could progress from hammer hand, to builder, to Master Builder. He's not gonna be a Master Builder if he's crap with the hammer.

My mistake when originally talking about Lawyers and Judges was that I assumed that people would know that the Judges are usually made from very good and honourable Lawyers .

Unlike in the states where you can be a Judge or a Sheriff by being voted for, qualifications not required.

Years ago in South Canterbury there were 2 master builders,good business men.Hold it,they never did their apprenticeships in carpentry.But sucked up the right people,smooth talked their way thru bank managers.Became very successfull.

Originally Posted by MarkN

I general terms, Judges are drawn from the better of the Lawyers.

Like a chippy could progress from hammer hand, to builder, to Master Builder. He's not gonna be a Master Builder if he's crap with the hammer.

My mistake when originally talking about Lawyers and Judges was that I assumed that people would know that the Judges are usually made from very good and honourable Lawyers .

Unlike in the states where you can be a Judge or a Sheriff by being voted for, qualifications not required.

I disagree, very good lawyers for the most part will follow the $$$ and that is not becoming a judge (typically it's working for a big corp or big law firm).

Judge is a career path for average or less than average lawyers.

Like I've said, I've known a few lawyers in my time (personal not in their role as lawyers) as well as done some work for large law firms (including some who ended up being in the news).

My one personal experience with an ex lawyer, who at the time was a friend of the family, was that apart from being a little eccentric they could be basically called an educated idiot.
Common sense was a bit absent.
At the time we had a bit of a drama at the local primary school. She was one of the more troublesome parents.
Not angry aggressive but her sense of being her interpretation of right and how far she pushed it could've easily wrecked tye place and almost did.
Mind you I also had a similar experience with a teacher a year or so later that absolutely did my head in. Very much the same thing with a hint of chip on the shoulder and a slice of superiority on top for good measure.
Bit of history, I became the chair of the BOT for the school right before a nationwide school review where the govt where aiming at shutting down as many marginal schools right across the country.
Met 5 members of parliament and had to deal with parents and teachers albeit for only 2 years.
Saved the school but only just.
Sorry back on subject

Bit off the subject, but I remember when I was first involved in court proceedings and was a bit green, complaining about the set-up of the district court. Defendants had rooms available to meet with their lawyers, but victims and witnesses did not, they met with the Police in the public waiting room, often in the same area as those accused of offending against them were sitting. My question was why the criminals are treated better than the witness.
A somewhat cynical, but honest old defence lawyer answered this very simply, "Sonny, remember there's no money in victims."
I have come to realize over the years that this sums up the criminal justice system in one sentence.

Fear of being caught ummm to them the more they get caught= more status. They even brag about what they do before getting caught on social media these days. And you think they fear getting caught and then they get caught and then what...