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hey all just a random question: can a police officer take your firearm off you on the spot even if they do not have a firearms license themselves?
just asking as i've heard some people say different things etc and just wanted to know what would happen if the cops pull you over and for some reason want to take your firearm and what your rights if they try like if there is more than one firearm license holder in a vehicle
cheers
The police (and I think the defence force) are exempt from the Arms Act when doing their work duties so don't need a license .
This is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
But they are not exempt from the law.
Speak to Nicholas Taylor. Or check out this handy leaflet Nicholas shared with us all.
NICHOLAS J. B. TAYLOR BA L.LB
__________________________________________________ _________________________________
__________________________________________________ ___________________
CIVIC CHAMBERS, Level 4, 2 Chancery St, Auckland City
PO Box 4106, Shortland St, Auckland
Mob: 021 362 123 www.firearmslawyer.co.nz n.taylor@civicchambers.co.nz
8 February 2022
What to do during a visit from the Police
If the Police come and knock on your door -
• The rules for all contact -
i. Be polite but firm.
ii. Ask to see identification.
iii. Record the name of the officer and their station.
iv. Ask why they are there.
v. Ask them to refer to the exact statutory authority they are using to visit your home
or to ask you any questions.
vi. Record the conversation, either via your phone or CCTV cameras (for your own notes
and records).
• What is the situation -
i. If you are a standard firearms licence holder - see Section 1.
ii. If you are a firearms licence holder with an endorsed licence (for pistol, restricted
weapon, prohibited firearm or prohibited magazine) - see Section 2.
iii. If the police search your home - see Section 3.
iv. If the police wish to question you - see Section 4.
v. If your firearms licence has been suspended – see Section 5.
Section 1 – If you are a standard firearms licence holder
- You must permit the police to enter your home to inspect all of your firearms you are in
possession of, along with your gun safe and security, and your ammunition and where it
is stored.
However:
i) You must be given at least 7 days notice of this inspection occurring.
ii) The inspection must be at a “reasonable time”. This is a time that most people in
the community would consider to be reasonable, for example 9 am – 5 pm, and
also if there was a good reason why it was not reasonable for the householder,
for example “I have a sick child asleep in that room, please come back tomorrow
at ….”.
NICHOLAS TAYLOR – BARRISTER
www.firearms.lawyer.co.nz
iii) It only applies to firearms and ammunition you are actually in possession of (ie.
control of). It does not include firearms that are in another person’s possession,
such as a licenced friend, gunsmith or gun dealer etc. There is no requirement to
disclose any information about a firearm not currently in your control or
possession.
- At no time can the police photograph your firearms.
- At no time can they record the serial numbers of your standard firearms.
- Under the Arms Regulations (29), the police may record the quantity and type of each
firearm in your possession (note “type” refers to “rifle”, “shotgun” only).
- It is an offence to refuse to let the police inspect your firearms, ammunition and security
without a good reason. This once again only applies to firearms and ammunition you are
actually in possession of.
- You need to produce your firearms licence on demand, but you have 7 days to do this if
it cannot be located immediately (s 26 2 of the Arms Act 1983).
Section 2 - If you are an endorsed firearms licence holder
- As a firearms licence holder, as in section 1 above, the police can, at a reasonable time,
ask to see individual restricted or prohibited firearms that you hold as an endorsed
person.
- For this purpose they may enter the premises to view and inspect the restricted
weapon, prohibited firearm or pistol, and the security for it.
- You must be given at least 7 days notice of this inspection occurring 24 B (3) (a), as the
endorsement for pistols, prohibited firearms and restricted weapons is attached to your
standard firearms licence.
- The inspection must be at a reasonable time to inspect your safe and security.
- 5 am in the morning is not a reasonable time. For example, if you have a sick child or
guests asleep in the room where the firearms are stored it is therefore not a reasonable
time for you as the homeowner. Politely ask them to come back later or set a time with
them for another day.
- However, if it is a reasonable time, you must allow them to inspect your endorsed
firearm (singular), (pistols, restricted weapons, prohibited firearms or prohibited
magazines), and your safe(s) and security.
NICHOLAS TAYLOR – BARRISTER
www.firearms.lawyer.co.nz
- It is an offence to refuse to produce a pistol, prohibited firearm or restricted weapon to
the police on demand, or to refuse their request to inspect it and the security for it, but
this demand to inspect or produce is tempered by the fact that it must be a reasonable
time to the home owner, and only if you are actually in possession of the items they are
requesting at the time of their demand.
- Remember, there is no such thing as a register of firearms in NZ. (until part 104 of the
Arms Legislation Act comes into force in 24 June 2023) The police record of endorsed
firearms is their own creation. It has no legal basis and is of little concern to you. The
permission for you to possess a firearm comes from your endorsement and permit to
possess or import that individual firearm.
- You must produce your firearms licence on demand by the police. You have 7 days to
comply with this demand if it cannot be immediately located.
- The legal requirement states that the police must identify and ask to inspect a specific
identified firearm (by make, model, caliber and serial number). Upon that request the
endorsed licence holder must produce it for inspection. It is not a requirement that all
need to be produced for inspection at once. Each separate item must be identified and
then produced in turn in order to comply with the conditions on the endorsement.
Section 3 – The Police enter your home via a search warrant, or under the Search and
Surveillance Act warrantless search or Arms Act provisions for search.
- Ask – “Under which enactment are you searching my home?”
- Ask for a copy of any search warrant.
- Do not answer any questions and say “no comment thank you”, “ I do not wish to make
any statement or answer any of your questions”. You have a right to silence. If you are
detained lawfully by the police you must give your name, address and date of birth, but
nothing else. There is no such thing as “off the record”. Ask to call your lawyer without
delay (Nicholas Taylor – Barrister; 021 362 123).
- Record the name of the OC (officer in charge) and record QID numbers (collar tags) of all
police staff attending the search.
Section 4 - The Police ask you to attend the police station and/or come to your home and
wish you to answer questions, eg. your name is on a “list” of people to be spoken to etc.
- Get the name and QID number (collar tag) of the officer. Ask for identification.
- Ask - “Under which statutory authority are you requiring me to answer these
questions?”
NICHOLAS TAYLOR – BARRISTER
www.firearms.lawyer.co.nz
- Politely and calmly refuse to answer any questions.
- Ask them to leave your property immediately
- Call a lawyer who can advise or assist you with Official Information Act requests
concerning the reasons for their visit and IPCA complaints if appropriate.
- Record the conversations (for your own notes and records).
SECTION 5 – The police issue you with a suspension of firearms licence notice (s60A Arms
Act 1983
- The Police can, without warning, and at any time of the night or day, appear at your
address in force and issue you with a Notice of Suspension of Firearms Licence.
- The Police “might/or may” demand you surrender all of your firearms and arms Items to
them immediately.
- No offence is committed by you if you refuse this demand.
- Do not invite them into your home.
- The Police may seize your arms items if you refuse, but they cannot enter your premises
to do so.
- The police will need to seek a search warrant or conduct a warrantless search for this
seizure to actually occur. Certain legal requirements need to be met before this can
occur and can be challenged.
REMEMBER: A fit and proper person should be one who co-operates with the police
within the requirements of the law, but not beyond it.
thanks this was very helpful especially as i dont really know my right as a firearms ownerQuote:
Originally Posted by 40mm
Print it out and hang it by the front door.Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewhall2912
I have, means I can refer to it without having to go find it.
yeah they only need a firearms licence if they want to use firearms outside of their dutes of work
was funny seeing them come thru the mountain safety course
the knowledge of the law and rules around firearms was a lot less than I would have expected, but then again these are full grown adults only now applying for a FAL
Let's not pretend that an FAL is worth much more than the piece of plastic it is printed on. The bar is pretty low.
Remember that if you are involved in a domestic situation (it happens) and the Police are called they are allowed to removed your firearms under the domestic violence act ( ie by enacting a statutory right of seizure) They dont need a warrant to do this.
Don't ask how I know this
Remember that if you are involved in a domestic situation (it happens) and the Police are called they are allowed to removed your firearms under the domestic violence act ( ie by enacting a statutory right of seizure) They dont need a warrant to do this.
Don't ask how I know this
I'm not so sure this is the case in the post CHCH. I went through the FAL licencing process since that and found the police checks and interviews very detailed and thorough.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Pity they didn’t do a thorough job on Tarrant application. Would saved a lot of money and heart ache, not to mention livesQuote:
Originally Posted by Fatberg