Thread: FAL referees: just be sensible.

This can actually set a NZ relevant legal precedent as it's happening in an English law jurisdiction.

Simple enough to not be a referee if you have reason to be unsure, but not necessarily easy if it's a close friend or relative you have to decline.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...harged-chicago

Copy n paste:

Highland Park shooting
Highland Park shooting suspect’s father faces charges for sponsoring son’s gun license

Robert Crimo Jr was charged with seven felony counts of reckless conduct for helping his son obtain a license in December 2019

Dani Anguiano and agencies
Sat 17 Dec 2022 00.35 GMT

The father of the 19-year-old accused of killing seven people at a July 4 parade near Chicago has been charged with seven felony counts of reckless conduct, as a result of sponsoring his son’s application for a gun license in 2019.

“Parents and guardians are in the best position to decide whether their teenagers should have a weapon,” Rinehart said. “In this case, the system failed when Robert Crimo Jr sponsored his son. He knew what he knew and he signed the form anyway.”

The charges against Robert Crimo Jr were announced on Friday, and the Lake county state’s attorney, Eric Rinehart, said he surrendered to police and will have a bond hearing Saturday.

Crimo Jr, a longtime and well-known resident of Highland Park, the wealthy suburb where the shooting took place, sponsored his son’s application in December 2019. That was just months after authorities say the accused gunman, Robert Crimo III, attempted suicide by machete and was accused by a family member of making threats to “kill everyone”.

It’s rare for an accused shooter’s parent or guardian to face charges, legal experts say.

George M Gomez, a Chicago-area attorney who said he was representing Robert Crimo Jr in the newly announced criminal case, declined to answer questions but told the Associated Press in a statement that the charges were “baseless and unprecedented”.

“This decision should alarm every single parent in the United States of America who according to the Lake county state’s attorney knows exactly what is going on with their 19-year-old adult children and can be held criminally liable for actions taken nearly three years later,” the statement from Gomez said. “These charges are absurd and we will fight them every step of the way.”

Gomez said Crimo Jr “continues to sympathize and feel terrible for the individuals and families who were injured and lost loved ones”, but the attorney called the charges “politically motivated and a distraction from the real change that needs to happen in this country”.

Robert Crimo III allegedly fired more than 83 shots from a rooftop in under a minute, killing seven people and injuring more than 30 at the beloved Highland Park holiday event. The injured ranged in age from eight to their 80s, and included an eight-year-old boy who was paralyzed from the waist down in the shooting.

A grand jury in July indicted Crimo III on 21 first-degree murder counts, 48 counts of attempted murder and 48 counts of aggravated battery.

Authorities have previously said that Illinois state police reviewed Crimo III’s December 2019 gun license application and found no reason to deny it because he had no arrests, no criminal record, no serious mental health problems, no orders of protection and no other behavior that would disqualify him.

But following the parade shooting, public records showed that Crimo III attempted suicide by machete in April 2019, according to a police report obtained by the Associated Press that noted a “history of attempts”.

Police received a report from a family member in September 2019 that Crimo III had a collection of knives and had threatened to “kill everyone”.

Both Crimo III and his mother disputed the threat of violence at the time. Police have said his father, Robert Crimo Jr, later told investigators the knives belonged to him, and authorities returned them.

Robert Crimo Jr has attended several pretrial hearings for his son this year, nodding in greeting when his son entered the courtroom shackled and flanked by guards. Crimo Jr is a longtime resident of Highland Park and a familiar face around the city, where he was once a mayoral candidate and was well known for operating convenience stores.

In media interviews after the shooting, Robert Crimo Jr had said he did not expect to face charges and did not believe he did anything wrong by helping his son get a gun license through the state’s established process.

While such charges are rare, a Michigan prosecutor last year filed involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of a teen accused of fatally shooting four students at his high school. A January trial date in that case has been delayed while the state appeals court considers an appeal by the parents.

Surely then, whomever issued the license would equally be liable

not really surprised. the US is an extremely litigious society. Someone always has to pay for something. In these cases especially if the shooter is killed or dead, they will try to portion blame.
Usually with costs to come later.
But considering you hear a lot of these instances have someone like a family member, workmate or friend say they were worried about them and what they were doing but did nothing about it. this is the next step.
they struggle with a solid consistent vetting system that would weed out the nutters because of their 2nd amendment, this way they can subvert that a little by making people think hard about sponsoring someone if they have doubts.
Which they should be thinking about anyway but this makes it a lot more serious.

No surprises there really . the land where anyone can sue whom-ever, for just about anything . Who can I sue...over the proposed $735- 5yrly-fee for a Firearms-Licence ?

I used a family friend who doesn't like guns, but she is probably the person outside of my wife who knows me the best

Originally Posted by Happy Jack

I used a family friend who doesn't like guns, but she is probably the person outside of my wife who knows me the best

Now there's a risk taker!