FAL Renewal Denied

I've heard a couple of as yet unconfirmed stories of people not getting their licences renewed due to being observed drinking while shooting. These have been duck shooters that the Fish and Game rangers reported after inspections during the season. While it doesn't worry me in the slightest, it is one of the rules, I'm wondering if anyone else has heard the same. Do they have that power, and what else can they report.
With opening not that far away, I personally hope that everyone takes notice, and leaves the drink til after the shoot. I know of a few around that should be taking notice of this. They're old school that should know better, but can't be told. Be good if karma caught up with them, by not getting renewal

Sad but a reality paying for your wrong doing. We have all sat the test and answered the same question about alcohol and firearms.
Like drink driving some people don't give a fuk and continue to drive while disqualified

Hope they're paying as much attention and detail to the recent gang shootings! I do not duck shoot, but many year ago the Mai mai was always full of alcohol, as you say the old school die hards hang in there. Hopefully they have learnt to shoot first and drink after, I remember a returned serviceman telling me he would never had got through the WW2 if he had been sober!

F/G don't have power over Alcohol and guns, but it can be a health and safety issue. On opening there is normally a police presence and this is for both Ranger safety and Arms code offences that the police do on the weekend. Going up to a Maimai full of armed drunk hero's can be challenging indeed, hence the cops. The cops like it because they can get around in the field and observe both good and bad behaviour. Remember a lot of those F/G rangers are volees and are there to support your sport not as a big ego thingy, thought you were a Ranger 7mmwsm. That's in our region anyway

My Dad escorted a game ranger off our farm as he was armed. Dad said I did not give you permission to come onto my land armed.
He said but I'm in the queens chain.
He still went. Local cop backed Dad.
He still came. Back the next year....no gun though.
As for the code I thought it said Avoid alcohol and drugs. Not that I condoning getting rat faced with a gun.
Can't see how they could enforce this, where's the proof! What a game ranger said...sorry but any good lawyer will have that dismissed.
On an eye witness? Not exactly blowing in the bag that is proof of alcohol consumption.

I think it is an offence to be intoxicated while in control of a firearm.

F/G policy no ranging whilst armed, so if he was armed then he was a hunter not a ranger, next year unharmed then ranging and he can go just about anywhere providing he has reasonable grounds.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

I think it is an offence to be intoxicated while in control of a firearm.

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I don't disagree!!
Gapped axe
It was a while back 87/88 about then.

I think if you were to challenge it legally I think it would be dismissed as to the fact there would be little or no evidence.
Notwithstanding that I think that if it were proven, FKN GOOD JOB.
It really grinds my gears when i hear about shooters, mainly once a year duck shooters, that think that its a'ok to get blazed while in charge of firearms.
I've seen Mai Mais absolutely chock full of piss :pissed off: The attitude is the real issue.

In conclusion, IMHO you loose or are unable to get FAL because you are not a Fit and Proper person. Don't cry on my pillow.

Fit and Proper person "One who does not piss it up in possession of a firearm, or sees no wrong in doing so"

Yeah, as I said, unconfirmed. It could set an interesting precident if they made an observation, and it was noted against licence numbers in the databank. Time for renewal.... "It was noted that on the .........you were observed drinking and shooting. Remind me again what the arms code says".

I would not recommend or endorse drinking while shooting, but it is not illegal.

Arms Act 1983, s47 Being in charge of firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon while under the influence of drink or drug

Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to a fine not exceeding $3,000 or to both who, while in charge of any firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon, is under the influence of drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon

I think drinking alcohol and using firearms would fall within you been Not a "fit and proper person"

You can lose your licence for been involved in a domestic where no violence has occurred but the Police think there might, they will revoke the licence.

I prefer to carry when having a few Tuskers eh @Feral

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

I prefer to carry when having a few Tuskers eh @Feral

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I do miss the Tusker ;)

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Originally Posted by Feral

I do miss the Tusker ;)

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one is too many and tens not enough...

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

one is too many and tens not enough...

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Now the fire water of Polish Star and Red Horse... that was brutal. Almost as brutal as the sugar cane alcohol from Boma out east by the Ethiopian border... All we had after the food ran out when the helo wouldn't pick us up, haha

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Originally Posted by Feral

Now the fire water of Polish Star and Red Horse... that was brutal. Almost as brutal as the sugar cane alcohol from Boma out east by the Ethiopian border... All we had after the food ran out when the helo wouldn't pick us up, haha

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Might explain the vision test results....

Red Horse is pretty much wine

While I wish I could say I have never had a dram when guns are out, I do think that drinking before the guns are away shows a certain level below "fit and proper" so people should pay a penalty for it. If that should be not being able to renew their licence is another matter-should be case by case and as the story has been told in this thread I imagine a judge throwing it out very fast if the police were challenged on it.

what a load of bollocks. at best a ranger can only assume somebody is drinking unless he has an enforceable way of assessing it (ie breath testing device) which anyway he would not have any legal jurisdiction to use in that situation
so failing to get your license renewed on the back of 'reported assumed drinking' is BS in my book and agree a lawyer would/should be able to kick it to touch. i hope so anyway!
i'm not saying i condone drinking with firearms but the assumption aspect is just a case of getting over-policed again

And yet they have the power to confiscate guns, and vehicles, or action the confiscation of.
If drinking was plainly obvious, I'm guessing the police would be called.
I just found it feasible that notes could be put on your file, which in due course, could cause issues

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Originally Posted by oraki

And yet they have the power to confiscate guns, and vehicles, or action the confiscation of.
If drinking was plainly obvious, I'm guessing the police would be called.
I just found it feasible that notes could be put on your file, which in due course, could cause issues

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that is all legislated law, here we are talking about reporting alleged drinking without police involvement. sure that info could be put on file i can understand that, but to deny an FAL without proof or investigation is a tough or questionably valid card to pull

I wouldn't have a problem with being breath tested while in charge of a fire arm or supervising someone with one

ha ha target. F/g have no input into alcohol and firearms Duh. You drink play with guns f/G turn up not our issue, you drink play with guns whist we have Police with us Dumb you.

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Originally Posted by Sideshow

My Dad escorted a game ranger off our farm as he was armed. Dad said I did not give you permission to come onto my land armed.
He said but I'm in the queens chain.
He still went. Local cop backed Dad.
He still came. Back the next year....no gun though.
As for the code I thought it said Avoid alcohol and drugs. Not that I condoning getting rat faced with a gun.
Can't see how they could enforce this, where's the proof! What a game ranger said...sorry but any good lawyer will have that dismissed.
On an eye witness? Not exactly blowing in the bag that is proof of alcohol consumption.

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important to note that not all water ways have a queens chain, my mates farm is an example of one that does not have one, they get sick of people claiming queens chain rights, in saying that they have a way of communicating that sees unwanted quest depart rather quickly.

Tuskegee export for me please sir, our Nile special :thumbsup:

Sensible drinking doesn't rattle me at all, being under the influence and showing it, gets me nervous. We have lunch at the local pub on Opening Day and I have a beer with that. We have a cop with us and he keeps an eye on us. N.b don't do Ranging after lunch.

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Originally Posted by mucko

important to note that not all water ways have a queens chain, my mates farm is an example of one that does not have one, they get sick of people claiming queens chain rights, in saying that they have a way of communicating that sees unwanted quest depart rather quickly.

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Yep, dead right, in fact the Queen's Chain is a myth. This document is a bit old now but explains it. Truth behind the Queen's Chain
Probably much more recent docs now with all the foreshore balihoo.

The other one is paper (unformed) roads and peoples’ mistaken view of rights around these. Paper roads are very well documented of recent.

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Originally Posted by zimmer

Yep, dead right, in fact the Queen's Chain is a myth. This document is a bit old now but explains it. Truth behind the Queen's Chain
Probably much more recent docs now with all the foreshore balihoo.

The other one is paper (unformed) roads and peoples’ mistaken view of rights around these. Paper roads are very well documented of recent.

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Hey @zimmer can you point me towards more info on unformed roads rights?
From what I've read public can access them just like any other road?


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Originally Posted by SlowElliot

Hey @zimmer can you point me towards more info on unformed roads rights?
From what I've read public can access them just like any other road?


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Yeah, I probably didn't word that bit about "mistaken view of right" quite right.

Here are a few links. The last one has mapping showing the locations. Some local councils also do a good job of mapping the ULRs in their areas.

Main issue when staring down and arguing with an irate farmer over your legal right to be on the road is the fact that you need to be certain you are truly on the road which in a lot of cases may be hard to determine.

If you Google Paper Roads you will see lots of stories where access is disputed by the adjoining landowners or councils themselves.

Also a lot of landowners probably prefer that local knowledge is kept quiet about the location of ULRs and in a lot of cases you would have to be sympathetic to them given the dicks that are around.

Unformed Legal Roads » Walking Access Commission
Paper Roads And Public Access | NWM
https://www.wams.org.nz/wams_tablet/index.html

@zimmer
Thanks. Pretty Interesting.
I never knew about them. I have questions.
I wouldn't want to piss any farmers off. Would you be likely to be stopped by an angry man?
Is the correct etiquette to talk to someone at farm first?
Or just go ahead?
Do people actually use these roads for hunting access?


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