Indeed, like forced vaccinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
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Indeed, like forced vaccinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
And why don't we see these configurations in the seizures where the Police proudly display all the guns and meth they are seizing?Quote:
Originally Posted by small_caliber
Look at the Customs data that I've given the link to elsewhere, it shows that air cargo intercepts make up the vast majority of the weapons seized at the border. I'm not saying that firearms aren't being imported, just that its not happening through sea cargo.
I think your view of how gangs/criminals get guns is very narrow minded and just mimics the police view. Or its based around the actual facts and figures that are published. Unless you have something to say those figures are wrong?
There's a study of British WW2 bombers that looked at where the returning bombers had suffered hits from flak and fighter guns with a view to increasing the Armour and survivability of the aircraft. All was going well, right up until they plotted the damage visually on the outline of a bomber. Then one bright spark observed that the hits were not in the areas of the engines, fuel hydraulic and cooling systems, pilots or flight controls...
What they were going to do was add Armour where it wasn't needed, as all of the aircraft that returned hit had already survived the damage. It's the missing statistics that didn't return that provided the important info...
Hand in glove.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
:wtfsmilie:Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
Anyone can see that the enormous charges are a tax. The only part that may cost some money is checking someone out to make sure that they are fit and proper, ie suitable to hold any firearm (and I mean any). That bit I can understand has a real cost. The rest is tax, pure and simple. Why does the government excessively tax certain items? booze, cigarettes, petrol vehicles, carbon etc etc?
Because they maybe want to discourage consumption/use?
I'm afraid if you can't understand that I'm not sure where to go next.
Not to mentioned staffed by the same type of people, a pre-requisite for a job there.Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM
I would wager they are still only checking a fraction of the incoming containers for ANY reason. Let alone looking for firearms.
Tonnes of drugs are not being flown in by air per annum.
As I understand drugs and other organics stick out with the new xray technology. Metal all looks the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher
I worked in a forensics lab for a while and got to shoot a couple of their firearms. None had serial numbers. It's not hard to destroy them and then a register cant be used to back track a firearm. Good for confiscations though which has happened a few times in OZ.
Two examples of guns getting into country. One about 33 years ago one about 30 years ago.
I was offered a 1911 style 9mm
With two boxes of ammo. $1500
All shady as. It was from smuggled in shipment between the container roof walls. The police got onto it. 1/4 of shipment was gone. They thought they had the whole lot.
Down invercargill at pub and stranger came up we got talking next thing he is asking if I wanted to buy guns crossbows or hand granades. I assumed he was full of it and said sure what you got.
We then went to his car and he had 3 crossbows 6 rifles, about a dozen pistols and 4 granades.
I suddenly realised this dude was a serious person to be messing around with and said sweet met me back here tomorrow and I'll see how much cash I can scrape up. Never went back or back to that pub.
Guns come in from multiple places.
If you think that pistols arnt coming in, your wrong. Why don't we hear stuff all about them.? Because they are not offered to nut cases who do stupid stuff like armed hold up. Senior gang members don't want the heat a pistol would bring down ( worse than a rifle) but they are there. Hidden away and used when needed.
The pub dude I think had some how nicked military supply least it looked like it.
Then there was the sweet old lady not that long ago who's husband had died and I helped move stuff for her. Offered me her husbands old air pistol for my help (knew I shoot air guns) 22 cal revolver cartridge pistol. I told her what it was and sujested she hand it to police.
Come to think of it also was guy in Broadwood up north.
He had a Russian 22 target pistol. Asked me if I knew what it was. He wasn't registered.
Reality is ships, planes, stolen, mailed in parts, smuggled in luggage there is a steady stream of illegally obtained guns coming into country.
The police simply arnt smart enough to stop it. Never will be.
Fal holders are going to pay the price for, under the misguided belief that if there's f all fal holders, then it's easier to catch ppl who shouldn't have them, and be harder to smuggle in.
Both illusions as you all well know.
Just reading this thread my opinion wont be popular with some.
I think that whatever the changes, the authorities are making, are proposing to make, and should make, are what we voted them into office to do on our behalf. Democracy, even when one side loses.
I too see news stories, where the punishment does not fit, or is too light for the crime. As I've said before, I have Lawyers and Judges in the family, and I'm old enough to know, that in the main the courts get it right and any lenient sentence, is either appropriate or has a good reason that is not public facing.
My personal view on fire arms licensing and registration, is that if we all get a licence and register our firearms then we're doing a good thing. If someone doesn't then throw the book at him/them. I'd like to see mandatory prison sentences for gun crimes.
I don't think that, when a police action turns out to be a mistake, that we should greet it with cries to get rid of the whole police force.
___________
I once, when travelling, happened upon an area, where they were x=raying bags, and where I could stand, off to the side (after my bags had been x-rayed) and I could view the screen and the two operatives that were looking at it. I stood there for about 10 minutes, before they noticed me and moved me on.Quote:
Originally Posted by 300CALMAN
In that time I saw, as you say, that any organic material was very obvious, orange and bright colours, with details like the knitted thread in wool (I assume) jumpers, being plainly visible. I could see the inside of iPads, laptops and metal was also obvious. I didn't see a gun, but the shapes and insides of things like razors and hip flasks made it obvious, that if there was a gun there it'd be seen.
I contend that if someone is looking at an x-ray of luggage or a container, then they will see a gun if it is there.
As to the frequency, of x-raying luggage and containers, I don't know.
Here y'go
Gun parts found hidden in peanut butter jars at New York airport
https://nypost.com/2022/12/24/man-ar...t-butter-jars/
I sense a business opportunity, home x-ray machines for sale.
I've got three jars of peanut butter in the cupboard, should I be worried?
It's currently 4 to 5 %Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkN
Some years ago i was in australia on a job .Working with sth australian police &customs guys it wasnt difficult to get talking on firearms gangs etc etc .
What opened my eyes was a tale about a raid (by their STG)on a bikie enclave out in the desert area after some strife in Adelaide. Found -a fully equipped machinery shop staffed by 3 ex RAAF armourers .FMR-sitting there 4 fully functional M60 machineguns and one getting its final spruce up prior to testing. mayhem -a bloody understatement.
These guys also said due to Aussies vast often deserted coastline detection and intereception of illegal arms imports (eastern europe /soviet bloc weapons) their task was often nigh on impossible.
Given the current volatility in NZ IMHO its not entirely beyond the realms of possibility something similar could be in the pipeline or indeed active.
Only if it is smooth.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkN
We expect a lot of our police and they can only do so much.
Their leadership and direction is one of the problems.
But statistic tell us they can only do so much.
I ride motorbikes and get the occasional ticket for speeding.
At one stage getting one about every 25000k or a couple a year.
But the odds of getting caught a pretty low if you run a radar detector and pick your roads.
This is what the crims do to pick the lowest risk options and expect to not get caught that often.
The police admin do not want to admit things are not going well for them no different to the rest of us we do not tell the boss we are
not up to it.
The problem also is media is selective in what they want to publicise and who can blame them.
Advertising is their revenue and you will get more revenue telling a story about Meghan and Harry than a statistic on illegal gun intercepts.
Sheep as a lamb ... if I was a crim planning to import firearms I wouldnt be bringing in shotguns and bolt action rifles, it would be machine pistols, AUG's etcQuote:
Originally Posted by kruza
Last time I checked with my P importer there was a two for the price of one deal going on. And every 5 Kgs of heroin got you another point towards a free pistol.
My point here is that illegal trade in arms goes hand in hand with the illegal importation of drugs. Neither have been slowed or reversed.
As I've said elsewhere, if these were being imported, we'd be seeing them in the Police press releases, but we dont. We see (obviously hunting) shotguns, bolt actions, ARs/SKS and the occasional pistol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
And like you say, you wouldn't bother importing shotguns etc, esp when you can buy them legit from a shop.
Why are you sure we would see these figures in Police press releases ? If releasing this information weakens the expected result of a firearms registry it would be suppressed. Most drugs do not come in shipping containers they come via large yachts, big money at stake and serious protection provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by HG Man
I would suggest a lot of the "imports" are actually arriving afixed to the outside of merchant vessels. Most likely the vessels don't even know they are there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
The reality is if a gang were organised (and had balls of steel) it would not be at all difficult to take a small speedboat in good weather out past 200nm line and tranship at sea.
Small boats are hard to detect and in good weather some a capable of over 40kts sustained
Containers are also likely given the volume detection is a risk worth taking I guess.
Bad guys are hard to catch and dangerous and scary, where as law abiding are easy to find and not at all dangerous or scary!!
When I was conducting the firearms safety lectures/exam for applicants for firearms licences in West Auckland back in the 1980s, the AO showed me an immaculately made stainless steel, semi automatic. 22 pistol. He asked me to tell him who the manufacturer was. There were no identifying marks on it, or the superb velvet-lined case it sat in. For those of you who are familiar with them, it was a clone of an AMT pistol. It had been taken off a drug dealer, and it had been made by "a very clever guy with a good workshop." It functioned perfectly and was very accurate, I was told. I wondered how many he had made.
It wouldnt be hard to make one if you had the right machine shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger 888
CNC milling and lathes these days are very accurate. You could actually just cut one off plans if you could ahold of some and the right materials and tooling. easy
40 plus years ago I was a Customs officer. Even back then most seizures were made on the basis of intelligence, both statistically based "profiling" and info based. The Dunedin office where I was last based used to get a couple of letters a week from the mates/opposition of crims dobbing them in out of spite, envy, patch protection etc. I doubt if it's changed much except for satellite surveillance of the 200 km zone and emails instead of paper letters.
Bugger all containers were searched back then apart from known high risk type shipments (Intel/profiling again) and it'll have gotten a lot less since then.
I wasn't talking about figures, I was meaning photos of the weapons themselves, we'd be seeing machine pistols etc, not hunting shotguns and AR's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Most drugs do not come in shipping containers they come via large yachts, big money at stake and serious protection provided. Do you have any actual things to back that up or is it just your idea?
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...pN4ba992x9qY8X
Honestly the reason we see less firearms seized is because the demand for meth and the profits associated with it far out strip those from firearms!
That said if we can import millions if not billions of $$ worth of meth to supply the local market, importing firearms along with it seems a very likely prospect.
A firearms register will do nothing to stop the illegal sale of firearms in NZ those that are already providing gangs with firearms already have a market to freely purchase from!
The police have no idea who owns what except for pistols and possibly some semi auto being used for pest control, to suggest that those that live on the fringes of society will register their firearms is joke! If the supply of locally available firearms dries up and the demand is there, I can guarantee illegal importation will rise above what it is presently..they cannot control the supply of meth into NZ ,a registry will do nothing to control the illegal sale and use of firearms in NZ either!
So this simply is a tax and another cost on the lawful fire owner!
I think half a ton of meth on 90 mile beach might back up his theoryQuote:
Originally Posted by HG Man
I know a bloke who in the 90's was paid $1000,000 to ferry 16 tonnes of Hash to port from a yacht in a big ocean going jet boat. Was set up and served 13 years for the 1.5 tonne recoveredQuote:
Originally Posted by mikee
I'm fairly well involved with cnc machining and one of my jobs involved engraving serial numbers on handgun frames that were LEGALY imported into OZ. Yes it would be quite easy to make high quality firearms but not worth it for an established machine shop to risk as this video shows quality isn't required https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH76VoI_hswQuote:
Originally Posted by Ranger 888
Hope he got paid. Even if he was the hourly rate is a bit shitQuote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Illicit drugs and guns are worth megabucks. small ships/large yachts are considered disposable forms of delivery. The BIG quantities come via Island hopping South Pacific island boats, as most South Pacific officials are eminently bribable to look the other way. Once a few hundred kms from NZ waters they biff it all overboard with a Garmin attached. Paired Garmin in NZ then goes out to the co ordinates a while later and uplifts.
If you want to see what sort of money is involved, the people interviewed on this channel open your eyes:omg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO25tusPIbM
amazing . a million american a day!!Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
3D printing will make a lot of gun control irrelevant and registers only work if you can't destroy the number. The few LFO who have been caught on-selling were either a result of police incompetence (like tarrant) or from what I understand drug addiction. The addicts will sell their grandmother anyway and the whole system wont work if the police don't do the Fit and Popper checks. The rest is just taxation. Some of you need to clean the fecal matter of your noses.
[QUOTE=HG Man;1399813]I wasn't talking about figures, I was meaning photos of the weapons themselves, we'd be seeing machine pistols etc, not hunting shotguns and AR's.
Playing devils advocate, if you wanted to make a point that illegal firearms come from legal owners, which seems to be the popular narrative, then the only photos you would show, would be of those firearms that would fit that aforementioned narrative. The average Joe cop may be ok , but those in charge are political as fark.
[QUOTE=Growlybear;1399954]Yeah, it could be. I've sent off an OIA asking for gun seizure statistics from the gang Op they ran last year, so when that eventually gets back to me, I'll be sure to post the results up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by HG Man
[QUOTE=HG Man;1400085]It will be interesting to see how many replicas, soft air and blank firing pistols are lumped in with cartridge firing pistols.Quote:
Originally Posted by Growlybear
Surely, the condition (a) (i) indicates that ownership is NOT an absolute right.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
Are you dreaming...? If what you say was even close to being true there would almost be no drugs in NZ at all as they would be intercepted at the border. Here is something I learnt from a former customs officer, If you want 5x containers or two to get in without inspection, send 6- one to each port. We have limited xray machines (it was one for a long time) that are shared between ports. If a container gets picked up, then the machine is not at the other ports.......and considering the numbers of containers entering NZ exceed the population by about 50 to 1 (50 containers per year per person) there is no way every container can be checked . In fact the % is so low that it would scare most people....Quote:
Originally Posted by HG Man
I agree with you but articles such as this in the Herald today https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/thieve...L5IWEGCQTIVIU/ do not serve to change the opinion of a demographic (we firearms license holders) within society that has been unfairly scapegoated for errors in due process made by Police. There has been much discussion among our number about the exposure we feel will arise from the existence of a register. The last three bullet points summarising the type of offences does nothing to assuage my concerns in this regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkN
They only check every 7th container .
Thats an awful lot more that I was informed of. Closer to 1:50. But the 1:7 could be the paperwork auditing where they are checking the tax revenue declarations.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffan