The FSA are chasing down the firearms of the deceased

So yesterday I get a call from a lady at the FSA, offering me condolences for the passing of my grandfather earlier in the year. She then went on to ask the whereabouts of his firearms, explaining that they wish to know that they are in the hands of appropriately licensed persons.

I informed her not to worry, that they are indeed the possession of licensed individuals.

She then pressed for the information of what the firearms are, and the identities of said individuals.

I replied politely that those individuals, whomever they may be, will register them in due course when they have an activating event.

She further insisted to know, what, where and who.

I told her that I am not obliged to provide that information.

The conversation ended there, and I was told they would be in touch if they needed further information.

Later that day I get this email :

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me today regarding your late grandfather xxxx xxxxx XXXXXX. Please accept our condolences for your loss.

This email is to confirm you that you are required to provide contact details of the person/s that are in possession of xxxxxx firearms.

As the firearms were distributed prior to June 24th, this will not become an activating circumstance so you are not required to register these, however we do need confirmation of who has taken possession of your grandfathers’ firearms and confirmation they have current firearms licences, Police must ensure that firearms licence holders continually comply with the Arms Act 1983 to ensure personal and public safety.

I appreciate your time on this.


Despite the acknowledgement that the firearms currently do not require registration, they are insisting that I provide this information. For the moment, I am not going to reply, but I suspect there will be a follow up email or phone call soon enough.

I'm not sure if anyone else has encountered this situation, regarding the passing of a family member so close to the introduction of registration and creation of the FSA.

Are you the executor of his estate, or were named in his will as receiving them?

There are a few prohibited firearms turning up in deceased estates from people who didn't realise their old 22 with 11 shot tube was actually an illegal assault rifle, and a few BAR and mini14s etc, could be they are checking for these.

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Originally Posted by stug

Are you the executor of his estate, or were named in his will as receiving them?

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No, none of those.
I assume they contacted me because I'm the only one in the family who has initiated a 'myfirearms' account on the FSA database, although I haven't registered any firearms. That's my only theory.

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Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

There are a few prohibited firearms turning up in deceased estates from people who didn't realise their old 22 with 11 shot tube was actually an illegal assault rifle, and a few BAR and mini14s etc, could be they are checking for these.

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Yes, I understand they will have a curiosity about the what, where and who... But whatever their reasons or intent may be, I don't believe there is any legal obligation under the act for me to supply personal details of other LFO's, and won't be doing so unless I'm proved to be wrong in my understanding of the legislation.

If it is not an activating event then they dont have any right to that information. Grandad may well have disposed of his fireams before he died , but retained his licence . That is none of their business and you did right to decline their request.

More people should dig their toes in and abide by the rules , not the wants.

90% of people will answer a question from a person in authority, even if there is no legal grounds for this to be compelled to be suppled.

Grandad died early in the year - soooo - he held a firearms licence at death - as at 24th June he held no firearms - pre this date there was no requirement to keep details of where the firearms went.

You did correct in not answering this question - in a way, it could be impossible for you to answer.

Interestingly going forward, whilst there is a requirement to track/register firearms, many many will simply "disappear", as they probably always have done.

Ask them/her/she/he/him/it - politely & respectfully - to quote the authority (legislative act & section) which requires you to provide this information.

Ask them/her/she/he/him/it for their name, their police id (if any) contact details and the name & details for their supervisor.
When asked why you need this information tell them that your lawyer requires this information when to offer you advice about answering the question.

See what the reaction is to your information requests is - and let us know the result.

I will Cyclops. I posted this up just to share and update things going with the FSA and LFOs out there in the community.

If he sold them privately before his passing they have no right to ask

Is anyone else pleasantly surprised the FSA is actually chasing deceased estates up regardless if they have the statutory authority to compel you to answer. Couldn't imagine NZPOL doing it.

NO comment after u stated your name and address supply any needed license thats it.
Rule 1 when dealing with any authority, if you don't say anything - they cant use it against you.

I would probably respond with a polite -
"
I was not the executor of the will.
Please follow up with the appropriate department.
Sincerely

You can copy that ;p

I really don't want to wade into the politics of things at the moment. Or ever.
I'd rather live in truth light and love.
But here we are anyway.

"Police must ensure that firearms licence holders continually comply with the Arms Act 1983 to ensure personal and public safety."

...Are you "police"? ... if not, then it is not your job to ensure firearms license holders continuously comply blah blah blah

(Never mind " the police's" many and glaring shortcomings in achieving the aforesaid)

Whether legislated or not, it has been good advice to ensure transfer/disposal, or appropriate arrangement, of your firearms before you die.

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Is anyone else pleasantly surprised the FSA is actually chasing deceased estates up regardless if they have the statutory authority to compel you to answer. Couldn't imagine NZPOL doing it.

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When my father passed away many years ago the police showed up the next day to very politely ask what the story was.

The more cynical side of me would suggest "the police's" time would be better spent preventing the criminal use of firearms "to ensure public safety" But what would I know.

Well you could've lied through your teeth and said he sold them before he passed. Sorry but have no idea if he wrote down the license number of the buyer but knowing him he wouldn't sell to someone unlicensed.
Bye bye.
This is a bit like the wanky tactics IRD used to do.
Play by the letter of the law happy to send people broke.
Sounds like some of them have a bit of passion for the project and are pushing the point to see if people comply

Both my son and myself got a call regarding firearms couple of months ago after the Hawkes Bay floods and wanted to know where the firearms were, they were told at a friend who has a license, came as a bit of a surprise, it's his house but my license is also tied to it

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Originally Posted by wazza56

Both my son and myself got a call regarding firearms couple of months ago after the Hawkes Bay floods and wanted to know where the firearms were, they were told at a friend who has a license, came as a bit of a surprise, it's his house but my license is also tied to it

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Wonder what the response would be if you said locked in my safe, under three meters of silt, and left it at that.

I hold firearms for my step son who let his licence lapse for personal reasons, this was nearly 2 years ago, he had to give details of who has his firearms and I then got a call from the then arms office to confirm I have them.

Nephew (31) who recently got his FAL has firearms here as due to mental health issues with a family member he is not allowed them at his address, same thing I got a call about it. I had also just moved house which for me was activating event, it got quite complicated for a few weeks but now everything is on the register in my name asI didn't have a choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wazza56

Both my son and myself got a call regarding firearms couple of months ago after the Hawkes Bay floods and wanted to know where the firearms were, they were told at a friend who has a license, came as a bit of a surprise, it's his house but my license is also tied to it

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Not as bad as a back country farmer got a visit from the police after Gabrielle suggesting he surrender his firearms to the police for safe keeping. His polite response is my farm is not flooded neither is my gun safe and their are no firearms issues. It takes about 1 1/2 hours to get there.

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Originally Posted by TeRei

Not as bad as a back country farmer got a visit from the police after Gabrielle suggesting he surrender his firearms to the police for safe keeping. His polite response is my farm is not flooded neither is my gun safe and their are no firearms issues. It takes about 1 1/2 hours to get there.

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How wonderfully welfare conscious of the Police! I bet they would have dispatched at least one Armed Constable forthwith should the need have arisen for a firearm on the Farmers property.

Surely no?

I find it heartening that the FSA are following up.

Everyone has the right to ask the question, but they must accept that you aren't obliged to answer. However, implying a legal obligation where none exists is questionable, if not illegal, behavior.

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Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

I find it heartening that the FSA are following up.

Everyone has the right to ask the question, but they must accept that you aren't obliged to answer. However, implying a legal obligation where none exists is questionable, if not illegal, behavior.

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I think underhanded and immoral also. Why would you trample peoples rights like this?? Because there's no repercussions from their end.

They are probably being brain washed into the 'keeping the community safe ' line of horse shit that get trotted out regularly.

Well, the government did manage to pass a new Act today (last sitting day for Parliament before the elections) in less than 2 hours...

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Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

Well, the government did manage to pass a new Act today (last sitting day for Parliament before the elections) in less than 2 hours...

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Pay increase??

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Originally Posted by tac a1

Pay increase??

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Haha gold! I think it was actually the 'previously unreported' Corrections amendment which allowed them to retrospectively enforce residential supervision orders on high-risk individuals that for whatever reason were deemed to be needing continuous supervision after release. A previous Supreme Court cancelled the orders as not legally enforceable, and this basically let a few less than 40 high-risk-classification ex-prisioners wander off from the residential supervision facilities they were required to reside at stopping supervision, and it was quietly tided up with an Amendment before anyone found out.

“Er, I’m sorry but I am not responsible for my grand father’s affairs. Fuck you very much”

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Originally Posted by -BW-

So yesterday I get a call from a lady at the FSA, offering me condolences for the passing of my grandfather earlier in the year. She then went on to ask the whereabouts of his firearms, explaining that they wish to know that they are in the hands of appropriately licensed persons.

I informed her not to worry, that they are indeed the possession of licensed individuals.

She then pressed for the information of what the firearms are, and the identities of said individuals.

I replied politely that those individuals, whomever they may be, will register them in due course when they have an activating event.

She further insisted to know, what, where and who.

I told her that I am not obliged to provide that information.

The conversation ended there, and I was told they would be in touch if they needed further information.

Later that day I get this email :

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me today regarding your late grandfather xxxx xxxxx XXXXXX. Please accept our condolences for your loss.

This email is to confirm you that you are required to provide contact details of the person/s that are in possession of xxxxxx firearms.

As the firearms were distributed prior to June 24th, this will not become an activating circumstance so you are not required to register these, however we do need confirmation of who has taken possession of your grandfathers’ firearms and confirmation they have current firearms licences, Police must ensure that firearms licence holders continually comply with the Arms Act 1983 to ensure personal and public safety.

I appreciate your time on this.


Despite the acknowledgement that the firearms currently do not require registration, they are insisting that I provide this information. For the moment, I am not going to reply, but I suspect there will be a follow up email or phone call soon enough.

I'm not sure if anyone else has encountered this situation, regarding the passing of a family member so close to the introduction of registration and creation of the FSA.

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BW, thanks for making us aware of this. And I wonder if the FSA follows up with the family whenever a gang leader in Auckland is fatally shot, as happens almost weekly?

Id just say thank you for your concern. Next time Im talking to grandad ill ask him and get back to you. Have a nice day.
Geeze Im getting polite in my old age ;)

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Originally Posted by tac a1

Pay increase??

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OMG, the useless B'stards are due for a pay rise... Disgusting.

I think rather than following up so intently with the family members of newly departed, how about where firearms licenses lapse? That's a black hole that never got filled if I recall. Molenaar in Napier and a lot of others were in this category.

NZ police need to investigate "whatakatasrophe" the new age LTSA ,most infamous of public services incompetent units. Fuck me theyre increasing motor vehicle costs across the board on 1october -shit it gives new definition to highway robbery. some increases well over 100%-apparently the justification is that one well beloved of the cheque book corgi and sausage rolls plus their gormless hangers on-this reflects the costs of increased usage. I was tempted to write to sausage roll and min transport and ask if this increase was to fund a new pothole fund or recreate our beloved MOW but their left leaning b academic branch would accuse me of being racist or some shit!