Thread: Hunter convicted

king hit is a interesting one...I believe one of the pollies is trying to push through a bill about it now??? there was a case in Timaru a few years back where single punch dropped fella to pavement and he hit head on gutter....... now IF a single or indeed multiple punch incident sees Joe public faced with manslaugther/attempted MS or indeed even assult..... lets level the playing field as we have chrystal clear evidence that is undeniable nearly everytime a game of rugby (union or legue) is played..... the "intent" is the same...you are pissed off with someone and take a swing....


as to origonal topic.....yes a major cockup was made and luckily THIS TIME someone didnt die......hopefully it helps educate a few others one way or the other.

H

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

king hit is a interesting one...I believe one of the pollies is trying to push through a bill about it now??? there was a case in Timaru a few years back where single punch dropped fella to pavement and he hit head on gutter....... now IF a single or indeed multiple punch incident sees Joe public faced with manslaugther/attempted MS or indeed even assult..... lets level the playing field as we have chrystal clear evidence that is undeniable nearly everytime a game of rugby (union or legue) is played..... the "intent" is the same...you are pissed off with someone and take a swing....


as to origonal topic.....yes a major cockup was made and luckily THIS TIME someone didnt die......hopefully it helps educate a few others one way or the other.

My son was invited to a meeting with him and his family, decided he was lucky and moved on without dwelling on it or getting further involved helping the prick feel good. The offender becomes the victim and needs the support of the one he bashed to overcome his problem. I would have cut his cock of and shoved it down his throat so he could breed, or at least removed a hand, but diversion seems to be enough in the eye of a very bad system!

Originally Posted by Maca49

Well Sidney we have plonkers making these decisions, if found guilty the punishment should be universal. No buts or ifs, clearly one size fits all. As mentioned before on here, a king hit on my son was treated by some idiot judge as so immaterial, the offender was given diversion? Fat useless Islander should have been charged with a min of grievous bodily harm. Sentences are crap!

Not even close Maca... every situation is different, so every outcome has to be as well... to suggest universal outcome is plain stupidity...

I have no idea about the appropriate outcome for your son and everybody gets stuff wrong. But as usual we haven't got all the facts and the judges don't determine what charges are laid. There is usually a reason for that and we don't know what that is either.

Look most of us understand the concept of fairness or proportionality and that doesn't stop suddenly because of personal emotional involvement. In that situation those decisions have to be made by others in order to attempt to maintain some degree of proportional response.

The fact is there is much more to consider that just the feeling of the victim or their families. And it wouldn't matter what was done for many victims, it would never be sufficient or appropriate in their opinion. Look at your response and then consider the contrast with the shooting victim's position in this story... in your case it doesn't matter to you what the offenders story is, in the shooters case he gets convicted anyway in spite of his victim's feeling about the matter...

Society has to consider the downstream effects of making decisions... victims are usually limited in that...

Funny no mentioning that netball player.....getting ripped off just sucks the same as they other crimes.

Interesting points there Sydney.

This is why the justice system seems floored to most.

Originally Posted by Maca49

H
My son was invited to a meeting with him and his family, decided he was lucky and moved on without dwelling on it or getting further involved helping the prick feel good. The offender becomes the victim and needs the support of the one he bashed to overcome his problem. I would have cut his cock of and shoved it down his throat so he could breed, or at least removed a hand, but diversion seems to be enough in the eye of a very bad system!

Maca, I am sorry you were not on hand for your boy, you might relate to this.
My son had just escaped from Waiberia, picked him up from Chch airport still in uniform, we headed for the Macauly river to go Tahr hunting, some drunken fuckwits were already in residence at the hut, the boy went in to sort a brew while I unloaded the truck, I walked in the door to find an unpleasant confrontation, drunken mr tough 40 something, nose to nose with a 17yr old kid making tough man noises, he objected to the uniform - I read immediately what was about to happen and shifted fast, but not fast enough, the headbut connected and the boy got cleaned out. I was into mr tough guy and put him down hard. His two mates were smart enough to stay out when they got told to. Justice was immediate and telling.

I am Old Testament in my outlook regarding justice. I don't believe in touchy feely dogooderism or reform. Society has become what it has, on the back of lack of consequence.

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Maca, I am sorry you were not on hand for your boy, you might relate to this.
My son had just escaped from Waiberia, picked him up from Chch airport still in uniform, we headed for the Macauly river to go Tahr hunting, some drunken fuckwits were already in residence at the hut, the boy went in to sort a brew while I unloaded the truck, I walked in the door to find an unpleasant confrontation, drunken mr tough 40 something, nose to nose with a 17yr old kid making tough man noises, he objected to the uniform - I read immediately what was about to happen and shifted fast, but not fast enough, the headbut connected and the boy got cleaned out. I was into mr tough guy and put him down hard. His two mates were smart enough to stay out when they got told to. Justice was immediate and telling.

I am Old Testament in my outlook regarding justice. I don't believe in touchy feely dogooderism or reform. Society has become what it has, on the back of lack of consequence.

I have to agree with that so much. We wrap everyone up in cottonwool so no one gets hurt at school or growing up. Everyone is a winner and no one loses. Problem is there are no boundaries for them, no understanding of consequences. There seems to be no perception that when something happens "shit just got real" type situations in particular, then the results where someone gets hurt or dies, and they don't accept responsibility because they did not know it could happen, when it is plainly obvious to all around them. I see so many examples these days of people learning the hard way when mistakes are made, that could have been avoided by not crossing boundaries of common sense. But because there were no boundaries growing up they dont foresee the result as a painful one until it hurts them.

@257weatherby great just what you need go out to the back country to get away from all to be confronted by this shit! Just to top it all objecting to the uniform, really wtf hope the Liverpool kiss reeducated him. But probably not.
As much as we would like the justice system to sort out our woes it seems for the majority it doesn't. My good wife trained as a lawyer and got out because law dose not guarantee justice. She went in because she wanted to see the bad punished. Which as we all see is not the way it's how you argue the letter.
Did you get any Thar?

Originally Posted by Sidney

Not even close Maca... every situation is different, so every outcome has to be as well... to suggest universal outcome is plain stupidity...

I have no idea about the appropriate outcome for your son and everybody gets stuff wrong. But as usual we haven't got all the facts and the judges don't determine what charges are laid. There is usually a reason for that and we don't know what that is either.

Look most of us understand the concept of fairness or proportionality and that doesn't stop suddenly because of personal emotional involvement. In that situation those decisions have to be made by others in order to attempt to maintain some degree of proportional response.

The fact is there is much more to consider that just the feeling of the victim or their families. And it wouldn't matter what was done for many victims, it would never be sufficient or appropriate in their opinion. Look at your response and then consider the contrast with the shooting victim's position in this story... in your case it doesn't matter to you what the offenders story is, in the shooters case he gets convicted anyway in spite of his victim's feeling about the matter...

Society has to consider the downstream effects of making decisions... victims are usually limited in that...

I think you have just explained why the world is so fucked up, maybe you should take a step back and take off you rose tinted glasses and see it as it really is. I’m trying to enforced some payment that has been through the courts and awarded to me, I have bailiffs working on it. Hahaha the crim is telling NZ law it doesn’t apply to him, NZ law is telling me it’s my fault. Great when the judgement goes for you but the offender gives the law the big finger and gets away with it. It’s a civil matter you know! No it’s not it’s a weak system, with no teeth, to much PC shit, yes they are imports and NZ law doesn’t want to be racist, we’re stuffed!!!

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Maca, I am sorry you were not on hand for your boy, you might relate to this.
My son had just escaped from Waiberia, picked him up from Chch airport still in uniform, we headed for the Macauly river to go Tahr hunting, some drunken fuckwits were already in residence at the hut, the boy went in to sort a brew while I unloaded the truck, I walked in the door to find an unpleasant confrontation, drunken mr tough 40 something, nose to nose with a 17yr old kid making tough man noises, he objected to the uniform - I read immediately what was about to happen and shifted fast, but not fast enough, the headbut connected and the boy got cleaned out. I was into mr tough guy and put him down hard. His two mates were smart enough to stay out when they got told to. Justice was immediate and telling.

I am Old Testament in my outlook regarding justice. I don't believe in touchy feely dogooderism or reform. Society has become what it has, on the back of lack of consequence.

And your lucky not to be in prison, must have been very satisfying. There’s a lot of arseholes about

Originally Posted by Maca49

And your lucky not to be in prison, must have been very satisfying. There’s a lot of arseholes about

Satisfying? Not how I would describe seeing a young boy get smashed, before I could get there to prevent it. Grateful to have been fast enough to prevent worse. The whole thing was quite sour.

The "justice" system in this country has become this weirdly flexible thing that changes according to who has the money or profile to bend it.

"Accidentally" ( prefer the word negligent ) shoot some one, and walk away without sanction that matches the scale of the crime, drive your car "accidentally" onto the footpath and kill a 4yr old child, and get to walk without sanction the matches the scale of crime committed, violent assaults carried out on people every day without genuine sanction.

Sorry Sydney, holding up being a soft and trendy hand wringing liberal apologist as an ideal, will only make sure the downward spiral of effective law and justice continues. Actual consequence without regard for position, money, profile, future prospects is the only way to halt the decline.

Well actually what you propose has never worked... history is littered with your version of justice and the only conclusion we can reach from the obvious is that retribution only results in further retribution.

So neither am I a hand wringing liberal apologist, nor am I stupid enough to ignore the obvious. That my friend is a pragmatist.

You might not like it but guess what; in a world of the same outcome you get the same result as a king hit offender - because your story doesn't matter either does it...?

Originally Posted by Maca49

I think you have just explained why the world is so fucked up, maybe you should take a step back and take off you rose tinted glasses and see it as it really is. I’m trying to enforced some payment that has been through the courts and awarded to me, I have bailiffs working on it. Hahaha the crim is telling NZ law it doesn’t apply to him, NZ law is telling me it’s my fault. Great when the judgement goes for you but the offender gives the law the big finger and gets away with it. It’s a civil matter you know! No it’s not it’s a weak system, with no teeth, to much PC shit, yes they are imports and NZ law doesn’t want to be racist, we’re stuffed!!!

The only thing that I can say about my perspective Maca - is that it is unlikely to be as narrow as yours. Your probably need to to concentrate a little harder to work out where you think I might have said that the system works well, for everyone all of the time. Not many would describe my world view as Rose-tinted.

That however is an entirely different thing to on-balance thinking that our system is problably one of the best human systems for attempting to address the confliciting needs between individual rights, individual responsibilities and societal expectations that humans have ever designed in all of human history.

And here is another news flash for you - just because you are not getting the outcomes you think are appropriate through the system, neither makes the system at fault or proves failure of the system. We know nothing of the other side of your issues.

You and 257 ought to form a Hatfields and McCoy appreciation society...

"This isnt a Court of Justice Son,This is a Court of Law"...Billy-Bragg....And in my former "Career"...I saw lots of rich arseholes 'Bend' the Law...

Guys my view is the same as many of you. In fact I am probably more extreme in my views about how we should deal with criminals than most. Collectively we are constantly disappointed by the legal system that Sidney so strongly believes is the best there has ever been but hey what else should we expect from a bunch of people (judges) that are made up from a bunch of people (lawyers) that consistently rate so low in the most trusted professional surveys that we common folk lend our opinions to. Mind you lawyers do routinely rank a teensy bit higher than politicians and car salesmen so it is not as bad as it could be. I do wonder though how many of the professionals that rate so much higher in our trust would have similar opinions of the legal system to ours. I suspect that we are likely to be the silent majority. Civilisation is but a thin veneer and with the right situational triggers, each and every one of us is capable of acting as Maca and 257 Weatherby would.