Im just glad they caught the prick and that no cops or public were shot
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Im just glad they caught the prick and that no cops or public were shot
I didnt hear whether they had found the perps rifle.
what is he getting charged with. attempted murder or something "softer"?
...and are the charges escalated if the firearm wasn't recovered?
If the firearm wasn't recovered.....it is still out there in the hands of like minded ar$ehole$.... - this should be an aggravating factor at sentencing and something the Police should be advocating: give us the firearm, or face harsher sentencing!! Where is the outrage of the Police Association and the feedback loop to the media if this is the case? - Please correct me if I'm wrong....
Pity he didnt walk out to cops with a gun pointed towards them,save us yrs of taxs.
One would expect a charge of attempted murder, times however many cops were within 30 degrees left or right of any of his shots.
Apart from proving insanity, his defense might be to forward reliable testimonials to the effect that he is a good shot and then draw attention to the fact no cops were shot.
And it would certainly not hinder his case to surrender that firearm.
Either way, he must go away for a long time.
Disagree. How do you rehabilitate someone who thinks this behaviour is OK? Best thing for all involved: he takes himself out - saves some poor Police or AOS member wondering if they could have done more and saves taxpayer dollars.
I'm all for rehabilitation and looking after people and all that feel good $hit, but as part of living in a functioning society; there is a social contract.... then consider he was already on home detention? This prick deserves everything he gets and then some...
@Nickoli
I agree Heke deserves everything that he is getting. But Heke did not kill anyone and so hardly deserves to die (though this could well have been an immediate consequence of his actions). Those of us who really would go for disproportional punishments could get a building job in Saudi and get a feel for that kind of barbaric society.
And Heke will be locked up for the safety of others. Whether he "rehabilitates" or not is a separate matter.
@Cordite - I have advocated before for outsourcing our "corrections" (I use the title with a massive grain of salt....) to be outsourced to China or Saudi Arabia: people like Heke deserve no less than a first class ticket on their way to such "rehabilitation."
That no one was killed by this ar$eholes actions is a moot point: he has proven that he cannot abide by the social contract, his history has proven this...why take the chance? Chris Cahill wouldn't take the chance on law abiding firearms licence holders - let alone criminals (and has continued to focus on us) - someone with this level of disregard for the law gets what he deserves with no harm to others - so what?
Genuine question by the way - take out the emotive crap with previous Police shootings... what right does a criminal have where a demonstrated disregard for the law and human life has been shown? A dog who attacked someone would be shown less leniency....what's the difference?
Anyone who shoots at cops is fair game in my book
Along the same vein.. This is the guy that tried to kill that cop the other night in the Coromandel. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014714474610
Truly, what do you actually do with scum like this guy and Heke? How much misery has this cunt caused? How many properties burgled, people stood over, cars nicked etc? Putting the fucker in a hole where he can't fuck anyone else's life isn't a loss in my opinion.
@Nickoli,
As you rightly say, Heke has shown disregard for human life, which is bad. But once we take offense at that we cannot simultaneously think of treating a human like a dog. The two are opposites. Treating a human like a dog is disregard for human life. Avoid that path with extreme prejudice.
In the end, what you feel about a human life vs an animal life is a philosophical, religious, origin type question that you have to consider and make up your mind about. Only do step carefully if your conclusion is at odds with the law of the land (which is based on one kind of view).
@Cordite: we are back to outsourcing our corrections to Saudi/China etc.
I have no problem thinking of people like this as animals where they have proven to be dangerous to society, incapable of living within society and incapable of working with others productively. This piece of shit can be let out to hurt others as you seem to advocate (bit of a stretch, but based on his history and trajectory - completely fair) or can be removed from society with a first class (trade deal approved and certified) ticket to Saudi/China justice....hell - we could even pay a token living cost for this a$$hole - regardless of whether the subcontracting jurisdiction keeps the prick alive or not...
I don't see a downside?
Please tell me you have an alternative argument...
@Nickoli
I'm totally with you on his trajectory. And I reckon you will of course agree with me that after a score years in prison, if he does make it out, he will be older and probably not that healthy either (probably didn't care much about his cardiovascular risk factors during life on the outside). Problem largely sorted of his own doing.
If Heke had been shot dead or sent into a wheelchair by a cop bullet, there would be no end of whingeing from various brown-skinned racist groups, inquiries, stress on the cop(s) for having shot a person (predictable mental stress) as well as Police internal investigations which will cause no end of mental wear on good men / women. Every so often a journo would dig up another angle on that "Morrinsville Maori Shooting". No end ever in sight... and you can't speak too badly about someone sitting in a weelchair, never mind someone deceased. In short, good outcome it played out as it did with everyone alive and the matter being able to be dealt with efficiently through the courts. Saying that, if anything like this happens in future I guess our cops may have quicker access to guns and the perpetrator will not be able to be brought before the courts.
In terms of alternative argument, the question you asked is whether to treat other humans like animals. If you treat another human as an animal, you have downgraded your own human status to that exact same worth. You're of the same race as Heke, so how you treat him paints a similar invitation on your own back. Straight logic.
As for a solution, fairness IMHO means proportionality of punishment. Judicial capital punishment for murder is proportional. Vindictive punishment, like the stocks or cutting off thieves' hands is animal behaviour. Mohammedan societies do not go for the proportionality concept enshrined in "an eye for an eye" and if you ask for a downside it would be pandering to such barbaric societies, by ever holding them up as good examples to follow!
Just had a confirmation that the officer did shoot back through his windshield.
Sure this will come out in the trial. But due to it bing an ongoing investigation those involved can't comment.
@Sasquatch as per my previous post I can't say!
But have a look at some of the photos of that police officers car.
If all those shots where in coming they would have broken more than just the front window.
Also the strike marks are all wrong for incoming! The two impact holes above the stirring wheel are incoming as you can see from the comet like tails above the house holes.
Glass dose not lie it show you in which direction it was broken from.
Attachment 74984
Also if you look closely at this pic you would think that with incoming you would see impact marks on the seats.
Remember that the rounds would be tumbling by now our starting to mushroom so that head rest behind really should look a little worse for wear.
Attachment 74985
Yes it dose depend on the angles but then the back window would have broken if it missed the head rest.
Our the side windows.
From the photos shown in the media this has not happened.
Cheers :thumbsup:
Typical glock mag would be 17-19 rounds, can't remember exactly. More than 15 though.
G17 standard capacity mags are 17 rounds. I don't know if NZ police are issues standard magazines though.
Understanding what we now believe we know, it is very interesting to go back and read some of the first two pages of this thread.
Hindsight, and all that.
Pays to keep your words soft and sweet - you never know when you might have to eat them.
"understanding what we now believe we know"
Think you may need to expand a little on that one :wtfsmilie:
Yup.....from that photo.......he’s the whanau of......Hone Heke for sure.....
IPCA Report here: https://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/public...e-waikato.aspx
16 rounds from a 7.62mm rifle fired by Heke, 29 rounds returned by cops.
Nothing deliberate then? Just a good, old fashion shoot out? And no one took a hit?
Snipers they are not, Cowboys yes!
Cowboys they are not. Would have been a much higher casualty rate from 27 shots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnPUe80oBZw
Only if fired by John Wayne
From the official report.
29. Officer C immediately reacted by aiming his pistol at Mr X and firing several bullets at him through the patrol car’s windscreen. Officer C believed he discharged these bullets in three groupings, leaning down behind the dashboard briefly between each one.
Question what is a representative charge?
From the report?
47. On 6 July 2018 Mr X pleaded guilty to a representative charge of using a firearm against law enforcement officers.
From the report who fired what.
. Officers B and C collectively discharged a total of 29 9mm bullets at or in the direction of Mr X, nine of which are known to have hit the Holden on the driver’s side and windscreen. None of the bullets are believed to have hit Mr X (and he did not have any wounds or injuries when arrested 12 days later);
Mr X discharged 16 .762mm bullets from his semi-automatic rifle.2 Of these:
o One bullet hit Officer A’s patrol car. It penetrated the rear passenger door and travelled through the front passenger’s seat, lodging into the inner passenger’s door. It is likely this bullet was fired when Officer A was driving up the driveway.
o Three bullets, which were aimed at Officer B and C’s patrol car, hit Mr X’s Holden. (Shot his own car)!
o Seven bullets hit Officer B and C’s patrol car including the driver’s door, front bonnet and windscreen. The bullets penetrated the engine bay, sump and the front windscreen, with one lodging in the dashboard in front of the driver’s seat.
o The remaining five bullets were not accounted for but are believed to include the initial shots fired at Officer A when Mr X first got out of the Holden.
Man bugger being in the middle of that lot good on the police for keeping safe and picking him up without anyone getting hurt, apart from the stress of incident.