Thread: New gun security laws

Originally Posted by Savage1

Maybe when we live in a fantasy land, morally I agree but know that it would never work.

I can't recall from the top of my head an E-cat safe being accessed up here except one where the dick put the key to it in a weak safe right beside it, which also contained the bolts etc, the safe also happened to contain C-cat assault rifles and pistols Nice guy, but really?!?! However the vast majority I've come across have been taken from unsecured houses or pathetic a-cat security.

Sorry, rant over.

Can I ask what you class as "pathetic a-cat security"?

Im not having a dig but am genuinely curious. When organising the security of my firearms I took it very serious and would like to think others do too. While i dont have an e-cat safe (cost was prohibitive) I would like to think I have done what I can to avoid being part of the problem.

Originally Posted by gimp

the onus should be on people to not steal our guns, not us to have to comply with expensive onerous security requirements that have no evidence of their efficacy

You've got to be kidding? Dream on. Thieves are exactly what the name implies and we will always have them. Why make it easier for them to steal your firearms. There is plenty of evidence that stringent B, E and C security requirements work at stopping opportunistic thieves from getting access to the firearms within. Professional criminals are a different matter but they're probably not likely to target your place unless you advertise the fact that you own those category firearms.

Originally Posted by Pineapple

Can I ask what you class as

Im not having a dig but am genuinely curious. When organising the security of my firearms I took it very serious and would like to think others do too. While i dont have an e-cat safe (cost was prohibitive) I would like to think I have done what I can to avoid being part of the problem.

While your question is directed at Savage1, I can assure you there are plenty of examples of "pathetic a-cat security" out there. The problem is that the original regulations are out of date regarding A cat security. A gun cabinet made out of thin MDF that can be broken into 30 seconds or a thin walled metal locker that can be jimmied open in the same time with a screwdriver are common examples.

Originally Posted by Pineapple

Can I ask what you class as "pathetic a-cat security"?

Im not having a dig but am genuinely curious. When organising the security of my firearms I took it very serious and would like to think others do too. While i dont have an e-cat safe (cost was prohibitive) I would like to think I have done what I can to avoid being part of the problem.

Anything that entry can be gained with only basic hand tools in little time. Cables and chains around rafters and cylinders are a joke.

I've seen many pathetic A-cat approved cabinets which I could access in seconds without any tools, just with a few swift kicks.

I'd like to see E-Cat security as a minimum, it's not overly expensive, but I believe the most important requirement with a safe is how they're fixed, bolted on two faces is a must, or at least bolted on the bottom and large bolty screw thingys on the back, I've seen too many safes been ripped from the floor with a crowbar or no tools even. I've even ripped one out myself with a hooligan bar, took less than thirty seconds.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Anything that entry can be gained with only basic hand tools in little time. Cables and chains around rafters and cylinders are a joke.

I've seen many pathetic A-cat approved cabinets which I could access in seconds without any tools, just with a few swift kicks.

I'd like to see E-Cat security as a minimum, it's not overly expensive, but I believe the most important requirement with a safe is how they're fixed, bolted on two faces is a must, or at least bolted on the bottom and large bolty screw thingys on the back, I've seen too many safes been ripped from the floor with a crowbar or no tools even. I've even ripped one out myself with a hooligan bar, took less than thirty seconds.

I know where your coming from having had mates and family take the cheapest option that might keep their kids from accessing, but that's all. But where does it end with firearm security when there is little if any deterrent from the courts when the few thieves and unlicensed that are caught ( probably pulled up in the first place for exceeding the speed limit). In smaller communities it doesn't take a genius to know who owns firearms.

So my buddy ended up ringing our local AO about it, in short some safe manufacturers have been cutting corners, and their Certs say that they "appear" to meet the standard not that they do, he wouldn't say which are fine and which ain't (ridiculous I think). Said they are still processing permits/endorsements but here's the kicker, if you have a safe as your storage they won't sign off on it until they have finished deciding which are going to be reclassified so in effect you won't be able to purchase anything.

On a daily basis we get people coming in having just done there safety test, asking for a cable and padlock to put around there hot water cistern, as this is what they are told on there course, we do not sell them, we only sell cabinets, customers will spend 000s on guns but object to paying $299 on the cheapest cabinet ? , you will never prevent the people who target guns to steal, but you will stop the opportunist thief

What I think they need to sort out is that the advice I consistent. Dad also just did he renewal yesterday, and he has one of the thin walled metal lockers, with a small safe for bolts. AO said locker was fine and no worries, whereas mine had been saying they weren't.

Originally Posted by hillclima

What I think they need to sort out is that the advice I consistent. Dad also just did he renewal yesterday, and he has one of the thin walled metal lockers, with a small safe for bolts. AO said locker was fine and no worries, whereas mine had been saying they weren't.

Might be an age thing, I've seen the same here, grandad ok, grandson, no,no. Both with the same security in diff house?

If they can steal money machines, what hope huh? Better under the bed where you've got a chance of stopping the theft?

Here a family move out 6 weeks after husbands fal is renewed, new owners move in when police get round to following up change of address he is told it wont pass (both are A cat only). Went up the chain and a second vetter passed it.
Seems to be a lack of consistency in applying the rules in a lot of these posts.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Seems to be a lack of consistency in applying the rules in a lot of these posts.

That's going to happen with A cat security because the regulations aren't as specific as they should be. What exactly does "stout construction" mean in absolute terms? It's too loose and open to interpretation and thus we have the variables.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

That's going to happen with A cat security because the regulations aren't as specific as they should be. What exactly does "stout construction" mean in absolute terms? It's too loose and open to interpretation and thus we have the variables.

I looked it up in a dictionary

"bulky in figure; heavily built; corpulent; thickset; fat:"

Stout = Short and fat........(or its a beer...)

Originally Posted by timattalon

I looked it up in a dictionary

"bulky in figure; heavily built; corpulent; thickset; fat:"

Stout = Short and fat........(or its a beer...)

There a times when a beer safe could be handy!

Originally Posted by timattalon

I looked it up in a dictionary

"bulky in figure; heavily built; corpulent; thickset; fat:"

Stout = Short and fat........(or its a beer...)

Hey that's me.



Sent from the swamp

Originally Posted by chrome

Hey that's me.



Sent from the swamp

Dont worry, I was not having a dig. I am the definition of stout myself....