Thread: One up the spout

Yesterday, a bloke I know told me that he now carries his rifle with a round in the chamber but with the sear disengaged; as in, he holds the trigger back during chambering so that the chambered round sits with the firing pin pressing on the primer under spring tension, but not 'cocked'.
This on a Remington and he claims that because the bolt shroud covers ( sort of) the back of the cocking piece this cannot be struck in a fall.

When game is sited and he is ready for a shot, he simply lifts and closes the bolt to 'cock' the action.

He considers this 'safe practice', I consider it possible that if the 'butt' was thumped down on a hard surface the inertia of the shell against the pressure of the mainspring could cause the rifle to fire.

Opinion would suggest this to be unsafe, does anyone know from an engineering / physics perspective whether it is safe or not ?

I have a friend who does the same with an xbolt and i dont like it personally, i use the half cock and 3 position safety but thats probably no better.

The reason for not doing this stems from the old 303 where you could very easily drop the butt firmly and the round would go off.
Personally, all my rounds sit in the mag until I'm in position to pull the trigger. A safety catch is utterly useless to me, and the mates I hunt with do the same. A round in the mag will never injure anyone, or go off unintentionally, but having said that, Ive never tried to ignite a round in a modern firearm by "thumping the butt" with the bolt closed (but not cocked).
Its a very uneasy feeling knowing the guy following you through the scrub has a round up the spout, even if its not cocked

Not a gunsmith / engineering perspective but I would much sooner have a round chambered with the safety on then do that. Or better yet, use a half cock with the safety applied aswell (if said rifle is able to do this).

Originally Posted by stagstalker

Not a gunsmith / engineering perspective but I would much sooner have a round chambered with the safety on then do that. Or better yet, use a half cock with the safety applied aswell (if said rifle is able to do this).

I'm the opposite, I would rather the uncocked rifle with one in the chamber than cocked with safety on - but neither unless I have heard or seen an animal.
Any knock that could set off a round in an uncocked rifle is just as likely to knock the safety to "fire".

That would give me the shits.
Either 1/2 closed bolt or Loaded and safety on both ONLY when "action" is imminent. Neither of those if walking behind someone or otherwise not in the front them.

Modern safety's though have come a long way since the old 303/ 1/2 bolt thing.

Originally Posted by mikee

Modern safety's though have come a long way since the old 303/ 1/2 bolt thing.

you would hope......... i had a zastava (modern m98 clone ) with a trigger safety and one day i was showing the missus how to cycle rounds and how different safetys work on different actions , obviously no rounds live being used. i put the safety on and said "watch now i cant pull the trigger" then click as the firing pin hit the dummy round.......... this was a relatively brand new rifle at the time but it wasnt like that at the time of purchase. so after maybe a box of ammo thru it the safety adjustment screw had moved .....kinda lucky i find out the way i did but i do not trust trigger safetys at all

Had an ole mate who would always close the bolt on a live round while holding the trigger, think it was a ParkerHale 270.
Tried to tell him its not a good idea ,but he couldn't see the problem. i was always a bit nervous if he was behind me!!

Originally Posted by scotty

you would hope......... i had a zastava (modern m98 clone ) with a trigger safety and one day i was showing the missus how to cycle rounds and how different safetys work on different actions , obviously no rounds live being used. i put the safety on and said "watch now i cant pull the trigger" then click as the firing pin hit the dummy round.......... this was a relatively brand new rifle at the time but it wasnt like that at the time of purchase. so after maybe a box of ammo thru it the safety adjustment screw had moved .....kinda lucky i find out the way i did but i do not trust trigger safetys at all

A safety catch is a mechanical device. Mechanical devices can/will fail. Calling it a "safety" catch is a misnomer and provides a false sense of security. I don't understand this insistence on having the firearm on ready, as if a nano second is the difference between getting a shot away successfully, or not?

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

A safety catch is a mechanical device. Mechanical devices can/will fail. Calling it a "safety" catch is a misnomer and provides a false sense of security. I don't understand this insistence on having the firearm on ready, as if a nano second is the difference between getting a shot away successfully, or not?

With me it’s not so much the ‘nano second’, it’s more the noise.

And in the bush the shooting ranges are well within hearing distance of the deer.

I remember reading in a book somewhere about someone carrying their rifle in this state, closing the bolt on a live round with the firing pin decocked. They were sliding down a bank on their bum with the rifle slung on their shoulder, the back end of the bolt hit a rock from the bank and old mate who was waiting to follow behind ended up getting shot in the stomach.

The fact of it is you can't have a discharge from an chamber is empty. But plenty of people have had a firearm discharge when they thought the safety was on, the safety was on, were checking if it was on, didn't realise the firearm was cocked etc.

If I'm on my own with the possibility of a snap shot have 1 up the spout and safety on (usually test it at the start of a trip) if with anyone else empty chamber

Originally Posted by 223nut

If I'm on my own with the possibility of a snap shot have 1 up the spout and safety on (usually test it at the start of a trip) if with anyone else empty chamber

Same

Originally Posted by 223nut

If I'm on my own with the possibility of a snap shot have 1 up the spout and safety on (usually test it at the start of a trip) if with anyone else empty chamber

I should add that this is in hunting situations where if animals are seen the 5seconds to chamber a round results in a white tail dancing into the distance. Rifle is always pointed in safe direction and if rifle is going back on the shoulder or no animals are going to be seen in the immediate future etc the round is removed.

The idea of having someone behind me with one up the spout would give me the heebe jeebes and no way would I be doing it if I had company

"Always point in a safe direction".

"Load only when ready to fire".

Probably a few more things that apply to that, but placing a spring powered pin against a primer like that is relying on a few things to not set that primer off. One of those is the hardness of the primer cup, and we know some are harder than others. It can take surprisingly little to set off a primer, other times you need to really put some effort in so for my comfort I would not be reducing my safety margin in this way. If it did go wrong the fact that you've deliberately done that (closed bolt, decocked on a live round) puts you in a position where you have to explain what alternative safety measures you've used and that's not that easy when the top two rules that you would have had to have memorised to pass the licence knowledge test have been ignored.