Thread: Sick of it all. Off to war.

Originally Posted by Sidney

perhaps after you have explained how I am not wrong but not right and offered reasons for that....I might actually agree with you about a lot of people....

but that doesn't change what reality is irrespective of how you want to feel about it...perceptions are not the measure by which the law is applied....

and you ain't got a mandate on the real world either...

You not wrong and your not right, you just express an opinion as have I! The law, in my opinion, is applied by a lot of weak knee , out of touch judges!!

Originally Posted by Maca49

You not wrong and your not right, you just express an opinion as have I! The law, in my opinion, is applied by a lot of weak knee , out of touch judges!!

No.. and I am pretty sure that you have missed the point.... I offered an opinion based on knowledge and capacity, and on any sensible analysis on what I offered, it is correct.

You on the other hand offer no evidence, facts or information that can be relied on to form a legitimate opinion. You only have a perception based on random unqualified pieces of media information, you offer no statistical understanding and no apparent understanding that media reports are based on statistically extreme pieces of information and bear no real reflection of the day to day situations, and normal performance.

You apparently have no ideal that our prison populations are at the highest levels ever and our offending rate/1000 people has been dropping consistently for years as well as has the total offences reported. (At least up to 2012). That don't sound like weak kneed judges to me, unless of course your argument was that they are obviously weak kneed because they respond to political and public perceptions, even when the stats apparently don't require it. But I am pretty sure that isn't what you meant.

So what you know about the normal day to day work done by judges in this country doesn't appear to stack up. Based on what I know, you have a pretty weak case for your latest attempt at a legitimate opinion.

Poorly created and uninformed perceptions aint opinions. The're just feelings.

Originally Posted by Sidney

No.. and I am pretty sure that you have missed the point.... I offered an opinion based on knowledge and capacity, and on any sensible analysis on what I offered, it is correct.

You on the other hand offer no evidence, facts or information that can be relied on to form a legitimate opinion. You only have a perception based on random unqualified pieces of media information, you offer no statistical understanding and no apparent understanding that media reports are based on statistically extreme pieces of information and bear no real reflection of the day to day situations, and normal performance.

You apparently have no ideal that our prison populations are at the highest levels ever and our offending rate/1000 people has been dropping consistently for years as well as has the total offences reported. (At least up to 2012). That don't sound like weak kneed judges to me, unless of course your argument was that they are obviously weak kneed because they respond to political and public perceptions, even when the stats apparently don't require it. But I am pretty sure that isn't what you meant.

So what you know about the normal day to day work done by judges in this country doesn't appear to stack up. Based on what I know, you have a pretty weak case for your latest attempt at a legitimate opinion.

Poorly created and uninformed perceptions aint opinions. The're just feelings.

Yes, the growing prison numbers are more an indication of society in free fall. The disaffected, and disillusioned who cannot maintain a job turn to drugs to numb the pain and crime to pay. A lot of this could arguably be attributed to the growing gap between the haves and have nots. When we had low unemployment and low crime we had greater productivity and our collective wealth grew as a country. Now we seem to be trying to soak up unemployment with created bureaucracy and inefficiency, with less and less productivity, and more and more overhead. These are generalisations of course and don't fit every scenario, but standing back and looking at the overall picture it is probably not too far off.

I

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Yes, the growing prison numbers are more an indication of society in free fall. The disaffected, and disillusioned who cannot maintain a job turn to drugs to numb the pain and crime to pay. A lot of this could arguably be attributed to the growing gap between the haves and have nots. When we had low unemployment and low crime we had greater productivity and our collective wealth grew as a country. Now we seem to be trying to soak up unemployment with created bureaucracy and inefficiency, with less and less productivity, and more and more overhead. These are generalisations of course and don't fit every scenario, but standing back and looking at the overall picture it is probably not too far off.

GM it's time we withdrew support for many and let them toughen up. There are others I think we should offer more to.
I remember a few years ago, talking to an older lady who told me about moving to Rarimu at the age of about 4 yrs and her dad digging a bank out to form a room and setting up a canvas on poles to provide a kitchen. That's the middle of the North Island, shitty cold and wet winters with freezing temps. They lived there for two years until her dad got enough money to build a small house! I think a car in Auck sounds much better. The diff is the struggle her mum and dad put in to achieve, he became a fairly wealthy guy in the timber industry, all through hard graft and belief in him and his wife. Now tell me things are different? Yep now we can put our hand out, and the govt will give you some of my tax money!

Originally Posted by Maca49

I
GM it's time we withdrew support for many and let them toughen up.

The trouble is that it would simply mean they have to steal more. It's a tough one. But it is a problem for us as a society, not just for the legislature/police/judicial system to sort out.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

The trouble is that it would simply mean they have to steal more. It's a tough one. But it is a problem for us as a society, not just for the legislature/police/judicial system to sort out.

Agree 100% with you there GM, balls in the wrong court,

Originally Posted by Sidney

No.. and I am pretty sure that you have missed the point.... I offered an opinion based on knowledge and capacity, and on any sensible analysis on what I offered, it is correct.

You on the other hand offer no evidence, facts or information that can be relied on to form a legitimate opinion. You only have a perception based on random unqualified pieces of media information, you offer no statistical understanding and no apparent understanding that media reports are based on statistically extreme pieces of information and bear no real reflection of the day to day situations, and normal performance.

You apparently have no ideal that our prison populations are at the highest levels ever and our offending rate/1000 people has been dropping consistently for years as well as has the total offences reported. (At least up to 2012). That don't sound like weak kneed judges to me, unless of course your argument was that they are obviously weak kneed because they respond to political and public perceptions, even when the stats apparently don't require it. But I am pretty sure that isn't what you meant.

So what you know about the normal day to day work done by judges in this country doesn't appear to stack up. Based on what I know, you have a pretty weak case for your latest attempt at a legitimate opinion.

Poorly created and uninformed perceptions aint opinions. The're just feelings.

Does the low offending rate possibly correspond with the high amount of offenders actually locked up? Can't offend from inside? Is that a bad thing?
Lets face it most of serious crime is probably (large assumption on my part) by a small % of full-time career pro's, I've come across a few and they find it hard to change.

Although I don't agree with the concept of Jail, putting all the bad people together to scheme up more shit for when they get out, making new acquaintances I do not have a suitable alternative solution.