Not NZ, but have a read and a laugh/cry anyway. State of it in Western Australia.
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Not NZ, but have a read and a laugh/cry anyway. State of it in Western Australia.
Attachment 89348
Attachment 89349
I mean, all those long range shooters committing atrocities in Aus have been a problem for years.
aussie firearms laws are made my muppets.
Draconian restrictions including calibre limits for pistol clubs etc.
did I say Muppets?
Aussies, no surprises there
Well at least we don't have to put up with that rubbish ….Yet, problem is we follow Aussie like sheep in a lot of things so no doubt it will come here in one form or another.
Having to justify what you own and use and for what is a crock of shit as far as I am concerned. As long as you have the relevant licenses for the rifles you own and are a fit in proper person ( you would have to be to get a license in the first place) then this is just a case of the police dictating what the civilian population can and can't do.
no wonder sharks keep eating those bastards.
I am not familiar with Australian firearms legislation but I am the proud owner of some very powerful firearms so seeing as how I live close to the West coast I may wander down and thumb my nose at the twerpy ocker that wrote that letter.
Wave some yellow paper at them if you really want to make a point @Rushy :thumbsup:
Be afraid ,very afraid.
We follow (blindly oftentimes) Australians rules, regulations and standards more often than not....we just lag behind a few years.
Timely reminder to accept and defend all shooting sports, even ones you are not into. My question is where will they eventually draw the line? 1000m? 500m? 100m?
WA has some very strange firearms laws...
Traveling to Aus for comps is pretty hard, lots of paperwork and runaround.
Going to WA is at a completely different level of madness, a lot of the Aus guys I shoot with don't bother competing in WA :o
WA nkers
mainly due to the Port Arthur tragedy. if any thing pro firearm comes up the antis come up with-please remember port Arthur, what about the families etc and yet there are drive by shootings every week in western Sydney by gangs. doesn't stop them.
I never got my Firearms license over there to much of a PITA.
You need permission in writing from a landowner to go shooting on their property which you require for the sporting classification vs the target stuff you do at the range which unless you are super rural and a long way away from must do similar to our pistol club you have to do as well. So many shoots per class per year etc
different classes between rimfire/shotguns and centerfires.
In the last few years they brought down the waiting period for purchasing a firearm from 6 odd weeks to only a few days for any after the first firearm, then it is still 6-8 weeks I think for the first one
Nothing over 9mm (I think) in the pistol clubs, pump action rifles ok, pump action shotties bad.
Full registration
If a cocky gave permission to too many shooters the cops were known to ask why the farmer needs his firearms license (which he can have as a primary producer) If he has so many shooters.
It goes on and on.
Did I say Muppets?
Yup, just constant need to justify yourself. This is why I want nothing to change with our laws. You have the freedom to be just a guy who likes guns and enjoys shooting them.
Nah, you are missing the point the Aussies are clearly very worried they’ll get shot by mistake while they’re out there rodgering the wild camels. That’s why the police are so concerned about the ability of the shooter in his application for a “very powerful rifle”. Makes a change from sheep
Wow. That logic is based on what? Where are the statistics to back up the severe control over these machines of doom?
Maybe, and this is just wild speculation on my part, politicians over there excrete faeces at the thought of someone at a mile being able to disagree with their version of how the world must be...
Problem is, having lived in outback WA for 6 yrs and been a licenced firearms holder there, that guys make up a lot of shit in the “genuine need” part of their application for a particular firearm, and get some land owner (who usually charges a cashie of between $200-500) to validate this “genuine need”.
So in this example, this bloke has basically claimed that this particular rifle is for use on camels. Now the cops that have been told to review firearm ownership and weed out the anomalies know that about 0.0000001% of camels shot in WA are likely to be shot with a .408 that looks just like a sniper rifle. Well, for all intents and purposes, is a sniper rifle.
The question they have asked him is why he can’t shoot his camels with his .300 Win Mag and be done with it? What is his genuine need for the .408? Not an unreasonable question. Shit, I shot camels with a .308 T3.
Now the reason I’m playing devil’s advocate fellas is that if the licence holder had applied properly as a long range enthusiast with appropriate accreditations, no problem. There are lot of those types in WA in the Wheat Belt with all sorts of incredible rifles, no problems! Mistake he’s made, probably, is to try and play the rules. It’s the few percent that fib on their applications and get them passed that attract a lot more shit for the whole sport down the line when some jobsworth decides to go and check what’s out there, and why. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of the Aussie rules regarding firearms, particularly the control of semi-auto centrefires for feral pigs, but in all seriousness, do you really think this bloke lugs this rifle across the Outback trying to get onto a mob of camels? I spent many many arduous days crashing around in a Cruiser chasing camels, if I’d pitched up with a .408 TAC I would have been laughed off the face of the planet.
Sorry for the alternative point of view. No offense meant.
some things just cant be unseen......
None taken-the rules are the rules no matter how stupid they are.
BUT if you are a fit and proper person for one firearm, it shouldn't matter what you have.
As an aside I believe that some of the English laws are a pain also. You can get a permit for a rifle and its your favourite, but if another one of these darlings comes on especially in the same calibre you may not get it as the question is asked "why do you need another one". I think it can just apply to calibres too-cant have 2 308's for example
I agree wholeheartedly, the Aussie system is properly crap.
But, they are the rules! Like it or not. And one thing I know from several countries now is that trying to get around the rules and getting found out just causes headaches for the rest of your fellow sportsmen and women.
Interestingly, you know that politicians in Tasmania have started to openly question the suppressor law? They got a stern talking too from the luvvy duvvy Canberra types, the Social Justice Warriors in the Department of Changing Everything We Don't Like Just Cos We Can, but at least there are influential people in political life who are prepared to ask the tough questions, finally.
Very true, the English rules drive my gun luvvin' rellies batshit.
I left England in 1987 as a youngster set on a life less ordinary, just after the Hungerford shootings which started the clampdown on firearms ownership in the UK. And then of course Dunblane after that in '96. I've not lived their since!
My rellies went through a world of pain as they had to surrender all their suddenly illegal guns that they used very effectively and exclusively for pest control, e.g. my Franchi 5 shot semi auto that I mentioned in the rabbit virus thread earlier. When I found out that gun was gone, despite living on the other side of the world, I was pretty bloody heartbroken. Somethings you just develop an attachment to.
I know for a fact that a few of these suddenly illegal guns were kept, as you might expect, though I've always looked at that action as a bit selfish and liable to end in great regret.
The thing that annoys my rellies the most about the UK gun laws is how variable they are application wise, from constabulary to constabulary. It is a fact that if your firearms officer likes you, drinks real ale and is an all round good bloke, you'll pretty much get what you want, in terms of bolt action hunting centrefires, within reason. If he's a bitter and twisted useless knob pushed into paperwork cos he didn't cut it as a proper policeman, you'll have a hard time getting a .22 rimfire.
From what I understand, everyone with a rifle the same or greater than .300 win mag are getting these letters.
There’s a bloke and his wife on YouTube that I met at a fair in Perth who likes to do improbable and really rather pointless stuff with rifles of all shapes and sizes at extreme range. Visited him in the Wheatbelt and ended up putting mate from a Gasgoyne station onto him for a long range 7mm build, can’t remember which one, RUM or SAUM whatever. And that was for camels!
I’ll send him a message and see if he’s got one of these letters, he had a .50 cal and a whole walk in safe full of Very Powerful Firearms last time I saw him!
Is that Mark and Sam?
I can't remember off hand the chamber designation I put on Sams, barrels it certainly didn't have Cheytac in it...
Just remember the Aussies are putting pressure on the Kiwis to align our gun laws with theirs........:oh noes:
The issue I have with the Aussie gun laws in regards to the "very powerful" ones etc; Is that so what if that guy put to shoot camels? You are most definitely right @Flyblown, he may of well wrote down the wrong recreational use. But that is where the problem lies, things change. People's circumstances change over time and what they want one day may change the next.
This is the luxury (freedom) of being a fit and proper person - I can choose what I want, when I want it. What colour it is and how big it is and I shouldn't have to justify why/how to anyone especially to the police.
Not a good time to sit back and laugh guys, the NZ Police have put a recommendation forward that you will need to provide a valid reason to have a FAL, or belong to an authorised shooting organisation or club. They have also publicly acknowledged that they are worried that MSC wont be able to deliver the required amount of firearms courses for applicants, or to the required standard. One of the reasons MSC won the tender against far more qualified organisations is that Mike Daisley, the CEO of MSC, the one and the same CEO that has dragged MSC to its knees, the one and the same CEO that recently sacked all the volunteers all over the country - is very good friends with Greg OConnor, the previous anti gun nutter that was head of the Police Assn. And another recommendation to government is that you will only be able to buy ammunition for the particular calibre of firearm you are licensed for.
So lets not be complacent, we need to stand united, we need to stir these bastards at every opportunity. Starting with turning up to the Police road show Scam thats happening all over the country right now and let them know we have some excellent gun laws, leave them alone!
A repeat of a post I put up last year. Perhaps some of you might now take the time to read and digest. The agenda is set. It will not change. The only options are to capitulate, or resist. Appeasement is not an option. That is just stupidity working for the enemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
The more I read it, the more it seems clear that they are trying to weasel in Australian gun laws.
This is what you are up against.
I suggest you download your own copy of the National firearms agreement to see what your government ministers and police policy makers have bought into. Note it is the Australasian police ministers council. Not the Australian police ministers council.Quote:
COMMUNIQUÉ
Law, Crime and Community Safety Council, 27-28 April 2016
The first meeting of the Law, Crime and Community Safety Council for 2016 was held over 27 28 April 2016 in Queenstown, New Zealand. Ministers from New Zealand, the Commonwealth and each state and territory with portfolio responsibility for law and justice, police and emergency management were in attendance, as was a representative of the Australian Local Government Association. The meeting was chaired by the Hon Nikki Kaye MP, New Zealand Minister of Civil Defence the (Emergency Management Session), the Hon Judith Collins MP, New Zealand Minister (Law Enforcement session), the Hon Amy Adams MP, New Zealand Minister of Justice (Family Violence and Community Safety session) and the Commonwealth Minister for Justice and Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Counter-Terrorism, the Hon Michael Keenan MP (Law Reform).
On 28 April 2016, the Hon Rene Hidding MP, Minister for Police and Emergency Management for Tasmania, asked Ministers to pause for a minute of silence to commemorate the passage of 20 years since the events of the Port Arthur tragedy – to reflect upon the ongoing suffering of those mourning the loss of the 35 people who died and the ongoing distress of many who survived appalling physical and mental trauma. Ministers noted that the tragedy shaped the Australian community’s notions of trauma, loss and suffering and how these events resulted in an extended community recovery program which became the benchmark for similar international events in following years. Ministers reflected on the decisive actions of all Australian jurisdictions in developing and achieving consensus on the historic National Firearms Agreement, which is the envy of many countries around the world and agreed to again restate all jurisdictions’ commitment to maintaining a national consensus on firearms as embodied in the National Firearms Agreement.
[Session 2: Law enforcement
National Firearms Agreement and other firearms measures
Ministers noted a number of measures to deal with illegal firearms and the ongoing work of senior officials to update the National Firearms Agreement.
Police and Government have complete contempt for your views. What you are seeing is merely the Govt's nodding dog technique. Your future is already decided.Quote:
AUSTRALASIAN POLICE MINISTERS’ COUNCIL
SPECIAL FIREARMS MEETING
CANBERRA
10 MAY 1996
RESOLUTIONS
2
1. Bans on Specific Types of Firearms
RESOLUTION
Council resolved:
(a) that all jurisdictions ban the sale, resale, transfer, ownership, possession, manufacture and
use of those firearms banned or proposed to be banned from import other than in the
exceptional circumstances listed in paragraph 1.2 of the Commonwealth proposal (see
below).
para 1.2 The only need for the use of an automatic or semi-automatic longarm would be:
military;
police or other government purposes; and
occupational categories of shooters who have been licensed for a specified
purpose (eg extermination of feral animals).
(b) that all jurisdictions ban competitive shooting involving those firearms banned or proposed
to be banned from import.
Council agreed to implement its resolution via the following action plan:
1. All jurisdictions to ban the sale, resale, transfer, ownership, possession, manufacture and
use of those firearms banned or to be banned from import other than in the following
exceptional circumstances:
military use;
police or other government purposes; and
occupational categories of shooters who have been licensed for a specified
purpose (eg extermination of feral animals).
2. All jurisdictions to ban competitive shooting involving those firearms banned or proposed
to be banned from import.
3. The Commonwealth to ban the importation of all semi-automatic self-loading and pump
action longarms, and all parts, including magazines, for such firearms, included in Licence
Category D, and control the importation of those firearms included in Licence Category C.
2. Effective Nationwide Registration of All Firearms
RESOLUTION
Council resolved:
(a) that New South Wales, Queensland and Tasmania immediately establish an integrated
licence and firearms registration system and that all other jurisdictions review their existing
registration systems to ensure that all systems are compatible.
(b) that these databases be linked through the National Exchange of Police Information (NEPI)
to ensure effective nationwide registration of all firearms.
This lecture is well worth watching. Very very relevant perspectives.
I encourage all forum members not to write abusive or slander-like posts about the authorities in this matter, if you think they don’t read these threads then think again. As posted above, its a very serious issue to NZ shooting sports.
https://youtu.be/0dOEON-H9BQ