Thread: Why frontline cops should be armed

Originally Posted by Smartie

that arming the public is ridiculous...

Rather then currently being presented with rhetoric & anecdotal evidence that the police "should" be armed, actual data needs to be ascertained. Then there is a fair argument for both the police and everyday citizens for self-defence.

I get that CC for some people may seem 'over-the-top' & unnecessary in this country (and you are probably right...) but we have to consider there are some very run down and potentially dangerous regions in NZ where good honest everyday people with FAL's have to live. I don't think it's unrealistic or ridiculous for those people to have at least an option for home defence. It's more a natural right that goes far beyond the legislation we have now.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Rather then currently being presented with rhetoric & anecdotal evidence that the police "should" be armed, actual data needs to be ascertained. Then there is a fair argument for both the police and everyday citizens for self-defence.

I get that CC for some people may seem 'over-the-top' & unnecessary in this country (and you are probably right...) but we have to consider there are some very run down and potentially dangerous regions in NZ where good honest everyday people with FAL's have to live. I don't think it's unrealistic or ridiculous for those people to have at least an option for home defence. It's more a natural right that goes far beyond the legislation we have now.

This bloke is a good example of someone who needs more than a cell phone to defend himself:

Farmer credited for security in fuel theft | Stuff.co.nz

Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

This bloke is a good example of someone who needs more than a cell phone to defend himself:

Farmer credited for security in fuel theft | Stuff.co.nz

Fucking arseholes. They were armed too. If the farmer was allowed to get thier attention by racking a shottie in the shadows, they'd have both the cunts in custody wouldn't they?

Also, do you like ""By their very nature farms are an attractive target for opportunistic burglars, given their isolation and the likelihood of fuel, tools and vehicles being accessible". - what a load of horseshit. What is 'opportunistic' about being on a farm in the middle of the night with a knife or whatever? They are just about trying to downplay it as if the toads walked into the bowser in the dark! They planned that, and there's no fucking way I'd believe that was thier first rodeo.

Originally Posted by Danny

I cannot understand this thread although I read and accept most points of views- some are wildly generic and plain nonsense, reminding me of a relative of mine whom has a Dr in front of his name, he is often fucked when building a deck, changing a tyre or nappy or talking any sense at all.

The police ARE armed but unfortunately no one can foresee into a crystal ball. Police routinely 'tool' up when attending a certain address or addressing an individual because of the history that some have so those who have no idea should just mow their lawns or go pull their pud...that you may be actually qualified to do...

No one can pick a David Gray or a Napier situation or a random 3T in a back country road that turns bloody ugly within seconds. So we need to accept shit happens, the PC brigade will always squeak the loudest, police will always be under resourced, under trained-and that's another matter entirely imo but the Police work bloody hard to protect YOUR family and friends and property.

But...God I hope we never see the general public allowed to bare arms in public; (like America), that would be a bad day indeed.
Now, I'm off to pull my pudding.

I see bare arms in public all the time. some of them need shooting.

Worksafe will fix it! They know everything and even more!!!

Originally Posted by Maca49

Worksafe will fix it! They know everything and even more!!!

But wait, ... we need traffic management to block traffic and generally be more of a road hazard that whatever they are trying to protect or protect us from.

I think we have pretty much covered everything and we are just going over the same points over and over.

Currently the Police don't carry guns but have ready access to them. They routinely carry tasers, and put guns on if they think they may need them.

People don't have the right to carry guns in a concealed carry role, and I don't think that will ever happen. they think there is enough issues with guns at the moment and some are advocating stricter gun control, so I think concealed carry is a dream that will never occur. You want CC, then go to the states.

Now it seems as though direct attacks on peoples comments are occurring rather than a constructive argument.

I think if this keep going, I think admin should remove the thread.

Just my thoughts anyway.

Fuck the lawns but I did catch a nice Rainbow trout out Tarawera.

Originally Posted by Danny

Fuck the lawns but I did catch a nice Rainbow trout out Tarawera.

We need photos or it never happened.

Was scared I'd drop the phone in the lake so it stayed in the ute lol

Originally Posted by Danny

Was scared I'd drop the phone in the lake so it stayed in the ute lol

Then you need a sworn affidavit from Gapped Axe.

That prick would have kicked me out of his turf and taken my trout

Originally Posted by Danny

That prick would have kicked me out of his turf and taken my trout

Well he is the sheriff of Tarawera after all.

does a good job all told too. But don't tell him that though.

So ignoring the tube vs the world side of the argument and summarizing my position:

Do I think NZ will ever introduce concealed carry? No, not a chance in hell.
Do I think NZ should introduced concealed carry? Yes, it's worth discussing even though it's unlikely to happen.

Why should we do this? Because every person has a right to self defence and that right is worthless if you don't have the tools to defend yourself. NZ is a safe country so generally this isn't something we have to worry about but there will definitly be people who are at risk and places that are more risky. This applies to both NZ police who should be expected to go into dangerious situations without the tools to defend themselves and the public of NZ (acknowledge that to own a firearm you need a FAL).

But wouldn't there be chaos with people shooting each other everywhere? This is the "think of the children" side of the argument and it comes down to culture. Every week there are groups of FAL holders who gather to shoot clays, targets, animals etc. During these events there are arguments etc and all the normal stuff that happens between people. Nobody gos and grabs a shotgun off the rack and starts shooting people cos thats just bloody stupid. Our culture says thats unacceptable and if you break that there are peanalties from both the social group you are in and the law. In the states if you have a CC permit and you pull your gun out and wave it around then you are breaking the law and will likely loose your CC permit. There is a culture around what is acceptable and what is not.

So what would change if in the unlikely event we were allowed this. Many pages ago somebody said that if a fight happend between a bigger and a smaller person then it would quickly descend into a gunfight. I see that as a good thing, if you are about to be beaten (potentially killed) by someone physically stronger than your self shouldn't you be allowed to defend yourself? The other effect is that people who beat others for fun would think twice about it cos they might have a gun...

In NZ if your house gets burgled then you are only allowed to resist if you life (not property) is in danger and then only with an appropriate level of force. If they have a baseball bat you are not allowed a knife etc If you grabbed the bloke and locked him in the bathroom until the Police arrived you would likely be charged with kidnapping.

In the USA there are a lot less burgleries because people who break into houses get shot. This depends on the state but if someone has broken into your house then you don't have to prove that your life was in danger, you just get to shoot them.

Now a liberal would say that a tv is not worth a human life and thats all bad but I say screw them, I want to live in a world where people who break into houses are more worried about their safty than the people living in the houses.

All of these opinions apply to the police as well. I have no problem with them being armed when the situation requires it and I think they shouldn't be visibly armed when it's not required. I don't think they (or anyone else) should have to risk their live due to lack of access to the right tools.

Would I use a firearm to defend myself in NZ? No because the legal peanalties are set up to discourage this and given storage requirements you would never be able to access it in time anyway. I would have to be convinced that myself or my family were about to die before I would risk my freedom that way. They can have the TV.

This is how far NZ has swung back the other way:
*In the live coverage of the chch earthquakes members of the public where tearing apart the rubble to try and rescue pople. Police officers stopped rescuing people and then threatened the members of the public with arrest unless they stopped cos the public is not qualified to rescue people and stopping that is more important than saving lives.

*If you shoot a burgler then you will end up on trial for murder.

*If you hold a burgler captive then you will end up on trial for kidnapping.

*A helicopter who defies a medical ban on flying to save the lives of two people is facing up to 10k in a year in jail.

*You can't import pepper spray because apparently thats dangerious and nobody needs to defend themselves.

What the hell happened? When did we turn into a nation of politically correct wusses?