20ga or 410 for beginners?

My boy and I are going have crack at duck hunting this year. He is 14 and I haven't been out for at least 16 years.

I'm thinking of getting him a single shot which I'll trim and add a slip-on recoil pad. Should I get a 410 or 20ga?

410 can shot lead and has very little recoil, but perhaps a bit hopeless as a game gun, and just allows him a painless bang if nothing else. 20ga will kick a lot more for him but will allow to actually kill ducks if he does his thing right. At this stage I'm leaning toward 20ga, a wee single shot could make a good bunny gun for us as well.

I don't want to spend to much as the whole duck shooting thing may not be what he/we are in to, just going to give it a go this season. I'll be using my old SKB 1300 12ga for ducks.

I figure 28ga or 16ga too expensive for ammo and I imagine 16 will boot more than 20. Thoughts?

I used to shoot a H&R 20ga synthetic as an average size 10 year old and found it fine. I understand wood stock / brass plate or anything would feel a lot heavier though. Its a good gun, a bit heavy but only a few hundy second hand to buy. You can get good shells for ducks in 20ga if you're willing to pay the price for Federal Premium.

Has the lad shot anything before, what sort of range, close pond or passing shooting?

remember lightly loaded 12 will recoil less that a 20, my 8 1/2 12g with oz loads recoils less than my 6lb 20ga with oz loads.

A lot of people give their kids light 20ga's and then buy heavy loads for them and wonder why the kids don't enjoy their shooting.

He has only shot rifles to-date. 22 and surpressed 223, so not really used guns with recoil at all.

Found with grandkids a single barrel was the most frustrating unit for ducks, missed the first shot 99% of the time, ducks gone before reload could be achieved. Found the pump action safer plus gave them a chance of second shot. Started them on 410 then 20 over a pond.

As much as i like my pump action 410, i wouldn't recommend them for a teenager. Ammo is way too dear.
If I did it again I would have got either a 12 or 20g gas auto and used light loads. its a bugger with steel as a trap load would be ok. Then again you can get steel trap loads now

Gas operated semi 12ga with light loads,at least if he is not interested resale value will be good,my boy(11) and I share my A400 lite no trouble,traded my M2 for it as the m2 is inertia operated and kicked a lot more especially with steel.

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Originally Posted by The bomb

Gas operated semi 12ga with light loads,at least if he is not interested resale value will be good,my boy(11) and I share my A400 lite no trouble,traded my M2 for it as the m2 is inertia operated and kicked a lot more especially with steel.

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I have an A400 Upland 20ga semi, I dont really get on with it but it is by far the softest shooting shotgun I currently own. Gas semis are usually the softest shooting but you may not want to start your lad on a semi?

go buy a fabarm semi, they shoot 1 0z upward with no issue. 410 and 20's will cost you a packet to feed. everyone here so far i go into fabarm seems happy. for a gun so light they just dont kick

Thanks team. Given me a bit to think about. I don't want to spend much, and now I'm thinking this season we can share my old SKB. I'll run some light rounds through it. Will have the added bonus of me properly supervising his shooting. If he is keen then I can look to getting him a left handed semi.

Years ago I took my youngest out on opening morning. He was about 13 to 14. He'd put the hard yards in building the maimai so it was time to give him a go. I'd got him a light 20 gauge, Rossi, I think. Anyway, about midmorning he turns to me and said, " Dad, this is starting to hurt" He'd fired quite a few shots and downed several ducks by then. I swapped my 11/87 for the 20 gauge and waited for the next flight. Long story, short, I quickly sold the bloody thing. Shortly afterwards I got my hands on a 101 20 gauge. We both loved it.

Oh yeah, he really has to shot a left handed gun as he is blind in right eye I don't want ANYTHING that would potentially hit him in his only working eye. Like bits flying out of a shotgun action.

If you decide to go .410 get in touch..... actually If you up this way call in,with shotgun barrel in hand and we can try my super duper Gary Cooper adapter..if it fits inside your break open gun you could have a loan of it... awesome for close in birds and it uses the .12ga choke so a full choke barrel will throw a lovely pattern out to 25ish yards.

the tightly choked .410 single HAS a purpose and gives kids a purpose..it is absolutely wicked for finishing of woundies on the water.far nicer to use than any steel load in .12ga if you leave that job for the boy,he hinself HAS A PURPOSE for being there.he is doing you favour and helping you out....making them feel important is big part of them wanting to keep doing it.... and when spoonie drake comes in and sits at 15-20 yards,get them lined up then kick wall of maimai bird lifts,pop goes wee gun and they are hooked...heck my kids have shot swan and canada goose with single .410 loads of mallards too. my Mrs fired first ever shot in anger with my insert and dropped TWO mallard drakes......

My single barrel Rossi 20g boots more than my gas operated 12g Winchester semi auto. You can still single load a semi until he has the hang of it.

its been said for years,loading a .20ga up to magnum levels till its poking out .12ga payload will up recoil...an once of #5s in lead always killed well,a similar load of steel will be just as good,no need to push big payload and punish yourself with recoil..I know of quite a few shooters who have dropped back to 2 3/4" in .12 ga as they found they dont need the extra the 3 or 3 1/2" to kill majority of birds.

I have a yildiz 410 over and under and its the ducks nuts mate with a magnum cartridge it will take down ducks no problem and a walk around the forest on quail will get your youngster interested in all aspects of bird hunting and yes the ammo is more expensive but not as expensive as buying a gun that he won't want to use 410's hold their price.

The 410 is an expert's gun, the very small pay load means there is no margin of error. At least with a 20g and 7/8oz light loads there is some pattern density to help the kids hit something.
For all those advocating using a 12 gauge with light loads I hear you, but it will not work with smaller framed kids that have to lean way back to hold it up.
Better to have a lighter 20 gauge that they can learn good front foot technique.

3/4 Vs 7/8th..not much in it and you also need to pick load itself with care...the wee .410 can still use lead so loads will be much less on recoil than steel load of similar payload due to lesser velocity.
a cheap single .12ga can be cut down to size with less pain to pocket than a new gun.... heck there are many of them sitting idle and up for sale after kids grow .
agree with frame size though,even the wee .410 we have I needed to tootoo with so it fitted well/better,one bit folks miss is the hand size of younguns,creeping forward to find trigger isnt good for placing pattern in right place.
and again the trick with a light .20ga is light loads for it to keep recoil down....which then puts the difference to a .410 smaller still,steel shot SHOULD have much higher pellet count per once.

If possible wouldn't it be best to get a youngster shooting clay's first and maybe some rabbits etc? I think you can get 7/8 oz for 410's but it's going to recoil just as much even more than the heavier 20 ga shotgun, can't beat physics.

Interested to hear answers also.

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Originally Posted by mikee

Has the lad shot anything before, what sort of range, close pond or passing shooting?

remember lightly loaded 12 will recoil less that a 20, my 8 1/2 12g with oz loads recoils less than my 6lb 20ga with oz loads.

A lot of people give their kids light 20ga's and then buy heavy loads for them and wonder why the kids don't enjoy their shooting.

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dead right -get cheap pump or auto 12 gauge - cut butt/ stock back to suit young shooter and use light loads - best combo you get for younger shooter - 20 gauge with heavy loads could kick harder - forget 410 rats only

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

If possible wouldn't it be best to get a youngster shooting clay's first and maybe some rabbits etc? I think you can get 7/8 oz for 410's but it's going to recoil just as much even more than the heavier 20 ga shotgun, can't beat physics.

Interested to hear answers also.

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nah 3/4oz is it and few n far between in these lawyer wary days,MOST IS 11/16th payload in 3" and 1/2oz in 2 1/2"

20g Browning Gold Fusion with 28" barrel, 26 would have been even better. I bought one of these for the Rat bag. My mistake was having a play with it myself. That meant needing two.:ORLY: Hence why this one has a spacer in the stock for my length of pull.
Gas auto means he can handle 1oz loads just fine.

Attachment 217232

After using this a 12g auto feels like a length of galvanized pipe.

At age 14 I would be starting him on 20g or 12g with light loads and as stated in other posts the single shots boot but also create better shooters as they only have one shot so do learn to make it count
My boys are 8 and 11 we all shoot with 410
The youngest a single shot 410 he has not got the hang of wing shooting yet he’s just happy to let a couple of shots off
The older boy is shooting a Mossberg pump 410 (started on the single shot) and has no problem taking mallards parry’s and even geese
I shoot an u/o 410 which I believe helps as the boys know they are not disadvantaged

Just an update. In the end I got a wee yildiz single shot 410. Had the old clay thrower out in the weekend. Once he had his eye the boy was using the wee gun well. In fact the little prick was out shooting me, and I was using my 12ga!

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Originally Posted by Double tap

At age 14 I would be starting him on 20g or 12g with light loads and as stated in other posts the single shots boot but also create better shooters as they only have one shot so do learn to make it count
My boys are 8 and 11 we all shoot with 410
The youngest a single shot 410 he has not got the hang of wing shooting yet he’s just happy to let a couple of shots off
The older boy is shooting a Mossberg pump 410 (started on the single shot) and has no problem taking mallards parry’s and even geese
I shoot an u/o 410 which I believe helps as the boys know they are not disadvantaged

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mm what loads he using on geese in the 410:O_O::wtfsmilie:

We shot Canada's with 3"4s but we're in close...the mixed up sizes in shells helped.you fit 90#BB in the std .12ga shell so get 60 ish in .410.... Got to get in close.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

If possible wouldn't it be best to get a youngster shooting clay's first and maybe some rabbits etc? I think you can get 7/8 oz for 410's but it's going to recoil just as much even more than the heavier 20 ga shotgun, can't beat physics.

Interested to hear answers also.

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This makes a lot of sense, going out on opening morning with the old man, having a few shots probably with some I'll fitting cast off gun is no way to learn to shoot.
Get a clay trap and some one who knows what they are doing to teach the kids to shoot.
20g semi auto with 3/4 oz target loads nice and soft shooting,

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

We shot Canada's with 3"4s but we're in close...the mixed up sizes in shells helped.you fit 90#BB in the std .12ga shell so get 60 ish in .410.... Got to get in close.

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ive shot them with 4,s to decoyin close but a lot more 4,s than a 410 holds.
it beggars belief that any one would let a newbee loose with a 410 on geese with whateva loads

it beggars belief that a father would take son out jump shooting and get within 25 yards of geese and NOT let him have a crack......or finishing off woundies 2 days after pros with big .12g have had a big bomb up and father n son take dogs and go searching around the rushes etc

that 25yard thing is IT with the 410....inside 25 yards its more than capable of holding its own with the bigger guages...and Ive seen young fellas drop big black swans with it too...big long vunerable neck to hit.

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Originally Posted by gsp follower

ive shot them with 4,s to decoyin close but a lot more 4,s than a 410 holds.
it beggars belief that any one would let a newbee loose with a 410 on geese with whateva loads

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a lot more is relative....... 3/4oz and 1 1/4 oz for arguments sake
its not twice the number of pellets and if we were to give you that twice the number of pellets and you fired at 50 yards with same choke..it would be EGGZACHARY the same as wee gun at 25 EXCEPT the .410s pellets are still going faster so carry more energy.....to even it out back to the std 36grn 12ga load..1 1/4oz we could tweek figures and limit you to say??? 40 yards and the pattern would be the same number of pellets on dinner plate ......