Thread: Dog training problems and answers

good solid advice Ruff and ill practice your method on the new bitch,sadly she will already be 13-14 months once landed without any training on her through some of the very formative months of puppyhood

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

From what I see people get way to flowery with training at times, then they confuse themselves and of course the dog.
First thing you've got to do is decide what the hound actually needs to do.
Every dog, and I do mean EVERY DOG needs to know when to stop, so of course that should be real high on the list and be the most simple. Myself stop is via a single dropping whistle. If it's a fine breed that I'm happy to put the time into then there will be hand signals added as well.
Then they all need to come, that around here now is a single raising whistle. Of course these two need to be THEconsistent, no matter what may happen. For me they first get the stop one and a few seconds to take that in then the come signal rings out.
Then there is all the other shit you can add, yes I've added it to dog's but frankly if the fucking thing is any good it will be on auto pilot and will know that shit already even though you may not...

i have to agree with a large part of this. My dogs all only have three commands on the whistle. Stop, turn, come. As an added refinement hand signals are brought in, not 100% needed, but bloody handy and time and game saving.

The ultimate is a dog that knows it's job. the things i require like steady to flush, shot, and game is all taught to be reflexive so it doesn't require a command, it's just what the dog does... like brick in the video above. Again, many won;t need those things. i do. These leads to a dog that knows it's job. personally i prefer to hunt a dog and not have to give any commands at all. I do it a lot now with the old boy cause he can;t hear me anyway, but he knows what to do. Walking for half an hour with a dog working with you and not requiring a single command while still working with you the whole time is the ultimate for me. The only command I would give vocally in that situation is an "OK" to go and fetch something.

I do see a lot of problems in dogs brought here caused by over training. Over training can lead to a lot of confusion until the dog can;t get anything right. You have to remember they are dogs not physicists. Also over keenness by handlers. i see a lot of pointing type dogs crowd their birds badly and this is usually taught behavior by people desperate to see their dog point so they push it in on game they should be busting themselves and chastising the dog for not holding... etc...

Most people spend a lot more time training their dogs than i do.

Having said that, it's a horses for courses thing. I have had a heap of mates who over the years have hunted successfully (By their standard) over completely untrained dogs running on whatever it has. You can get these easy... you just keep shooting the non biddible naturals. I have never believed there is much in training that teaches a dog bugger all about hunting. That's what we get when we seek out great genetics... It's really just control and polish we can bring to the table. Exposure to hunting is where a dog learns to hunt, track, work runners etc.. we don;t really teach that... many dogs don;t get enough exposure to it to get really good at it. Old brick is revered by many. I am not convinced he has any exceptional inheriant abilities many of the other ballyblacks don;t have (Though Whitehead still thinks he's the best one Jim has produced). But he's hunted a lot... at one stage working preserves up to three days a week and then wild hunting on other days. He knows more about pheasants than I do.

In the end it's personal choice. Like me with photography... I have a pretty decent digital SLR but still do 99% of my stuff on auto and get pictures as a result. Some flowery types will wank on about lenses and apertures and iso's and all that other slightly limp wristed stuff and get better pics... but we all get pics.

My GWP's are coming along nicely, but 1 thing I am having trouble with is getting them to stop on command when they are free running.
They are very good on a loose lead, but when free running and they see another dog, duck, hare, people on bikes etc they just don't listen.
They're both bitches and about 7mths old now.

Should I try a long lead? I've never had to use 1 before so have no idea what to do.
How long should the lead be, 30ft?
Do I just let them run with it loosely and then only pull back if they don't stop on command?

Are they running together when this happens?

Originally Posted by cambo

My GWP's are coming along nicely, but 1 thing I am having trouble with is getting them to stop on command when they are free running.
They are very good on a loose lead, but when free running and they see another dog, duck, hare, people on bikes etc they just don't listen.
They're both bitches and about 7mths old now.

Should I try a long lead? I've never had to use 1 before so have no idea what to do.
How long should the lead be, 30ft?
Do I just let them run with it loosely and then only pull back if they don't stop on command?

No No and No and you didn't read it. Sorry but you're on a slippery slope... I wouldn't have given them that exposure to chasing... but anyway. fixable, but get onto it, if you teach them to chase, they will and it can be hell's own job to get the to stop.

Yeah run them both at the same time Wirehunt.
Tia is the 1 that does it more, Pippa I think just follows her sister.

Ruff - I'm not trying to let them chase anything, that's the point. How do I not give them exposure to anything without taking them for a run? I don't understand that.
I can't help it if they flush a hare, and I can't control other dogs/people at the park.

They only do it when free running and ahead of me by a short distance.
They don't even show signs of wanting to do it when on a lead.

When at the local polo grounds/dog park I make them sit/down and wait if/when another dog person comes close. And only when the others have gone do I let them get up again. If the other dogs come up to them I am normally holding their collars so they cant' get away. If they get up they get a sit command and a squeeze on the rump if they don't sit.

It's the stop command I am trying to teach them.
If I don't use a long lead, how do I do it then?
Cheers for your assistance

Any serious training should be one on one. You'll find the dogs much more responsive to this. Even if it means halving their time so be it. But two at once especially at that age is very hard to win, or more to the point, do any kind of serious training.

Yeah I was starting to think I needed to run them 1 at a time.
Will try that then and see if that helps.

Still after some advise on the best way to make them listen to a stop command too please.
Do I try to get them good at the stop command at a closer range and then gradually let that distance go out further?

For me the stop command starts when they are at heal. If they can't stop then there isn't much chance at other times.

one should point out as i already have many methods works for different requirements as many dogs have gone onto to perform well in the feild or on the trial paddock with inadequate trainers -dogs are intelligent enough to grasp a bit also -in saying that if there is a better way to do it as Ruff has alluded to -as they say at Nike -Just Do It !!

Gidday All,

First post here on the forum.

I have been reading these dog threads with interest and thought I would chime in with a few questions to poke it along.

A little about myself. I have two GSP’s, one male, one bitch. I am starting to do more and more wing shooting. I have access to quail, rabbits and ducks currently. I have only ever hunted over my male. Male is two years and head strong as all get out. The bitch is 10 months, quite soft but still subtly stubborn. I have gone through the full circle of food rewards, games etc. to get the result I want. However as a few of you may have already guessed, behaviour/ obedience problems still exist.

I now realize, the best type of discipline for a dog, is self-discipline. I love & respect my dogs and am prepared to put in the time and effort to get them to where they need to be (as biddable members of my pack). No doubt the problem lies with my ability and knowledge as a trainer.

So here are a few questions that the answers to which will help immeasurably.

1. What is a reasonable consequence/ punishment for deliberate disobedience to a command. I have been chaining them up (isolation) away from the pack for a little while.

2. My bitch loves to jump up on people. To me this is disrespectful and needs to stop. How would you convey to her that what she is doing is wrong, and what consequence would you put in place for continued no compliance.

3. How do you teach a dog to have a solid walk at heel. My male knows where he needs to be, however is very inconsistent to the point you have to call off the walk before you explode.

I’m sure I have more questions but these will do for now.

Cheers,

James

Originally Posted by Stoney

Gidday All,

First post here on the forum.

I have been reading these dog threads with interest and thought I would chime in with a few questions to poke it along.

A little about myself. I have two GSP’s, one male, one bitch. I am starting to do more and more wing shooting. I have access to quail, rabbits and ducks currently. I have only ever hunted over my male. Male is two years and head strong as all get out. The bitch is 10 months, quite soft but still subtly stubborn. I have gone through the full circle of food rewards, games etc. to get the result I want. However as a few of you may have already guessed, behaviour/ obedience problems still exist.

I now realize, the best type of discipline for a dog, is self-discipline. I love & respect my dogs and am prepared to put in the time and effort to get them to where they need to be (as biddable members of my pack). No doubt the problem lies with my ability and knowledge as a trainer.

So here are a few questions that the answers to which will help immeasurably.

1. What is a reasonable consequence/ punishment for deliberate disobedience to a command. I have been chaining them up (isolation) away from the pack for a little while. depending how far you are from the dog will be how effective your punishment will be .If the dog is close a verbal chastisement should let the dog know you are not happy -its what dogs do to each other also with a growl or body language .If the dog is at distance I personally would use an E collar -in fact I am putting one on my dog tomorrow after todays session in the parkas he went a few times with not answering his whistle on the first peep - disobey instant stimulation -stimulation is such a nice word for instant electric shock .An e collar dummy will need to be worn also so the dog thinks you can always touch him at distance or up close also with or without the real collar being worn

2. My bitch loves to jump up on people. To me this is disrespectful and needs to stop. How would you convey to her that what she is doing is wrong, and what consequence would you put in place for continued no compliance.Paw squeeze , E collar , verbal chastisement - see what works and run with it

3. How do you teach a dog to have a solid walk at heel. My male knows where he needs to be, however is very inconsistent to the point you have to call off the walk before you explode. E collar -always effective "if" used correctly !! While on a Lead use a a crop to swat his nose if he progresses in front of you or change direction and knee him in the ribs -kindly so as not to hurt him but keep him guessing which direction your going so he doesn't get the knee in the ribs

I’m sure I have more questions but these will do for now.

Cheers,

James
Attachment 5159

I hope this helps to some degree -Ideas some may work for you some may not

Originally Posted by Stoney

1. What is a reasonable consequence/ punishment for deliberate disobedience to a command. I have been chaining them up (isolation) away from the pack for a little while.
This is a wide open question and really does depend on the crime.

2. My bitch loves to jump up on people. To me this is disrespectful and needs to stop. How would you convey to her that what she is doing is wrong, and what consequence would you put in place for continued no compliance.
Kick her legs out from under her when she does it, and you don't need to be gentle when you do it and the reverse too. It will only take a few times...

3. How do you teach a dog to have a solid walk at heel. My male knows where he needs to be, however is very inconsistent to the point you have to call off the walk before you explode.
I assume that a solid walk at heel is right behind you, or right in front? A stick, when they move from that spot a tap. You don't have to belt them hard, just a tap to remind them to wake up and get back to the spot. If he still plays dumb then onto a lead.
I’m sure I have more questions but these will do for now.

Cheers,

James
Attachment 5159

E collars, they work BUT you've got to know how to use them and they need to be used so sparingly or else you end up having to put a dummy one on them all the time. Every dog has a different level of tolerance to them and the only time I ever use full power is stock proofing....
Yes I have got them, but if they get used once every two weeks then they have had a workout and this is running 12 dogs.

Im have to say Wire hair -full power to me would be tantamount to torture -but I agree with you about using them sparingly .If you use it to incorrectly youll get a dog that wont leave your feet . We have all made E collar mistakes in the early days of using them and I have had one for 12 years now .

I have put an E collar on my neck once on a high level and instead of pushing vibrate I pushed you know who -IT WAS NOT NICE LOL . I use at most 1/4 power and could never see an animal needing more than that -its not just uncomfortable it bloody hurts.

I dont like the Ecollar for that reason but if you start real low you will find a power that the dogs recognizes very quickly and you need never go higher .

why cant I edit my above post -the spelling fairies have got into it and fully retarded me