Focus?!

I have a 2yr old ESS who in the yard retrieves well delivers to hand etc. When I have taken him to training days he seems to perform really well and is switched on however when we go to the park for training all he wants to do is run around and chase things. He seems to forget any whistle commands and just takes off! I have run him on a long line in the park and he works ok but is really distracted and doesn't focus on me at all. He shows no interest in retrieving a ball / bumper or anything
Don't even get me started about what happens when we go on the beach!
It seems he needs other gun dogs around to switch on however this is not always a viable option.
Any ideas or tips? Especially to get him focussed on me.

dont take him to the park ! take him to a place where he can work cover .The parks generally lack cover and allow the dog to freely run and to boot with a lot of other distractions around him which are more interesting than dad-if he wont stop get an E collar and let him know you can touch him from afar

taking him somewhere to work cover to fix this problem is like taking a teenage boy to a strip club to stop him from wanking.

put him on a lead and give him shorter free runs and work on his recall in the yard and build up the distraction level when you do the recall training else where.

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Thanks for the advice. Im still not sure about the use of e collar. Think it will be last resort stuff. I think I will work on the lead stuff first. I find it frustrating as I know the dog is been held back by my lack of knowledge and opportunities to get out.

Ayejay, I wish you all the luck with him...I agree with Kawhia in that your dog will identify the locale for work...you do NOT need an e-collar for him. Parks are full of dog markings...it is a wonder they do not do their heads in when they are taken to parks with all that urine scent going on...

ive always used collars to some degree or other -proofs in the pudding ..............................

+1 for the e collar, they are worth their weight in gold in most situations and handy to have, my gsp always wears hers when we are out and about, but rarely have to use it! as she was really bad at the beach at running at people who were walking, and if i was someone walking id be shitting myself if a dog came running at me, so in my eyes its a good investment to save my ass and potentially my dogs life, but in turn she now listens to my commands weather the collar is on or off

using an e collar for basic recall is just bullshit.....a whistle and a pup that has been taught to obey it is always the best method.
if you have a pup or young dog that has taught itself to ignore you and just bog off it's a sign you need to work on the stop.

Agree with Kawhia. No person in their right-mind would advocate the use of an e-collar in order to get compliance of basic stop / recall commands.

Go back to basic yard work and gradually increase distractions while ensuring compliance. Use new environments that are initially free from distractions and build up over time.

The advice given above is incorrect, and possibly downright dangerous so I have to comment.

Most of the American training programs by most of the big trainers specifically mention not to use the electric collar in the immediate presence of other dogs. It can lead to aggression problems when the dog associates the shock with the dog it was running at or even worse, a person.

Ayejay what you have here is as Hoon and Kawhia stated, a case where the level of distraction is greater than your level of control on the dog. Do as they both say and back off on the distraction, working on 100% compliance with known commands in a known low-level distraction environment such as your back yard, before you gradually increase distraction while maintaining 100% compliance. You have to think two steps ahead of the dog, anticipating when the wheels will fall off and being ready to correct him when it happens.

Ok that sounds good thanks. We unfortunately started out wrong with him, he was always a pet 1st with hunting etc a possibility so off we marched to obedience armed with a bum bag full of cut up dog roll. He was great at the obedience until you didnt have food or seagulls were around. When I mentioned I wanted to use him for hunting the idea was shot down and was told to work on fancy footwork to getting him heeling properly hmmmm. Didnt take long to leave obedience. Now I have my FAL I would like to use him for what he is bred for as well as having a dog I can take to the park throw a ball or bumper and have him retrieve it with out taking off. Off to the yard we go. Is it best to start again with a short lead beside me or just have him on a longer lead?

Suggest you pm either Kawhia or Ruff. Too many conflicting opinions are going to help not hinder. Good on you for asking for help to make the most of your dog

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Originally Posted by gqhoon

Agree with Kawhia. No person in their right-mind would advocate the use of an e-collar in order to get compliance of basic stop / recall commands.

Go back to basic yard work and gradually increase distractions while ensuring compliance. Use new environments that are initially free from distractions and build up over time.

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I have to disagree with you GQ, Ive trained my dogs using a collar whilst using the whistle also -my young one is a good example of sensible use of collar and training good compliance and a happy bitch .
In saying that if you are new to training you should always seek advice and help from someone a little more advanced in training .Most anti collar posts a purely emotional :brzzzzz: plenty of people in the dog community getting results from different methods Im sure

Ayejay , why dont you hook up with a spaniel competitor in your area and get some advice on what they do .

I have joined the waikato gun dog club and sth auk club. Will chat to people when they have the next training day. I have been to a couple of days last year and its like I have a different dog! He still gets excited like a 2yr old spaniel but retrieves and comes back to whistles etc.

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Originally Posted by el borracho

I have to disagree with you GQ, Ive trained my dogs using a collar whilst using the whistle also -my young one is a good example of sensible use of collar and training good compliance and a happy bitch .
In saying that if you are new to training you should always seek advice and help from someone a little more advanced in training .Most anti collar posts a purely emotional :brzzzzz: plenty of people in the dog community getting results from different methods Im sure

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You don't need an e-collar to get the outcome Ayejay is seeking. Sure, some may choose that path to try and achieve it. But I believe it is totally misguided to advocate it's use when the outcome can be achieved without it's use.

It's a spaniel, it should be within 40 yards of the handler at all times it's working. There is no need to be able to reach out and touch it from a distance. You simply need to instill the command and be prepared to get your running shoes on!

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Originally Posted by el borracho

Most anti collar posts a purely emotional :brzzzzz:

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My hesitation in advising a dog handler with a young dog in the use of an e-collar is not emotional, El B...

his dog is 2 years old and has done the basics ....its emotional ... if his dog wont take command after going through the basics then a little more persuasion would help his situation .The problem with the anti collar crew any age is to young even if they have never owned one or used one -I have and used properly they can be very effective.

to what level has he done the basic's.......... he may have got a little control and compliance in the back yard but he hasn't transferred that to the outside world..... your advise is take him to an area with cover and game scent which will only bring out more problems later on, and then give him a belt with the collar.

it's a spaniel, easy to train, willing to please and full of himself, two parts of that make up will fix the third.

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Originally Posted by el borracho

his dog is 2 years old and has done the basics ....its emotional ... if his dog wont take command after going through the basics then a little more persuasion would help his situation .The problem with the anti collar crew any age is to young even if they have never owned one or used one -I have and used properly they can be very effective.

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Read Ayejay's description of the dogs behaviour in the back yard compared to the park environment again. In low distraction areas, the dog is fine, but in high distraction areas the wheels fall off. The park environment is more stimulating and fulfilling for the dog than interacting with its handler......that is what Ayejay is seeking advice on.

Its a matter of getting back to basics and becoming the most important thing in that dogs world, without exception.

How soon after you get to the park are you trying to work him?

Ayejay get your dog under complying without any dogs around, then slowly expose your dog in a hunting environment and get the same controls to be reliable in that situation.
Start off with areas where there is no game & no other dogs, once you've got the solid control there, go to areas where there is a bird or two (no other dogs again). When you are all happy there, then bring in a second dog as a distraction (find someone who has a well mannered dog to start off).
If you have some one with a pigeon launcher, you might want to use them to create some time of stimulus while still having a control of your training environment (get someone experienced to help you out with it).

No point training at the dog park when there is 10 other dogs interfering with what you are doing, it only leads further frustration on your part and chastising the dog in return, when it can all be avoided. After all I'm assuming you want to train your dog to be compliant in a hunting situation, not in the park?

Another thing, as you start exposing your dog to different environments you will notice he will be more compliant when he is in a hunting mode and works closer with you. As opposed in the park he is just chilling around and wants to sniff some bitches...

Get him working with you alone - build some type of hunting rhythm and rapport between you to, leave the rest of the world behind for a moment.
They are pretty smart, they know the difference between a hunting scenario and a stroll through the park.
It becomes quite simple. Give him one thing to focus on which is you, and not you + 20 other dogs... Learn from my mistakes, I'm still suffering :)

After reading the posts and doing some more research I have come to the conclusion I have been too lax on the 'accepting nothing but compliance' mindset. So im starting back at the start with him.
At the park I normally run him on a lead for a while then start working on sit, recall using the line if he doesn't come back to haul him to me. I am not confident enough to let him go not so much that he wont come back but more that he will piss someone off or worse knock some kid over.
If I was to suggest the ideal outcome for him and me I want a dog I can take to the park / beach knowing I will get 100% recall regardless of what is around and then be able to take him to hunt birds knowing he has the basics for hunting sorted.

best of luck with that training Ayejay!! 100% compliance is a big call , just be happy with consistent improvement --ive heard the best of them yell at their dogs for compliance so dont beat yourself up !!!and have fun

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Originally Posted by Petros_mk

.. Learn from my mistakes, I'm still suffering :)

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Weve all made those screw ups Pete that we end up paying for as time goes on .....your not alone lol:oh noes: