Thread: Pheasant Dog

Thanks guys. Hunting mainly around Waikato, Auckland Northland - scrubby hill and cliff country.

EeeBees - reading through similar posts on this site, there seems to be a view that versatiles are 'harder' dogs that are at the more extreme end when it comes to training. As performers, a pointer is my ideal dog - not much beats watching them work. But there's not much pleasure in watching a poorly trained dog, and even less in working with one (let alone owning it!). Realising that any dog is only going to be as good as the training it's given, I'm committed to giving it everything I've got. If I was hunting every day I wouldn't hesitate to go for a GWP, but wonder whether I'm better to go for a different breed that would be more forgiving?

On a side note, just got back from the UK. Noticed that many of the versatiles over there seem a bit more sane than many of the same dogs you see in NZ. Is there an issue in NZ with concentration of lines, or is it more a reflection on the breeding?

Ever thought of a gordon setter, there will be a litter from working lines coming up around xmas. You are right, nothing beats watching a good setter/pointer working.

Originally Posted by B&Tan

Ever thought of a gordon setter, there will be a litter from working lines coming up around xmas. You are right, nothing beats watching a good setter/pointer working.

Cool, send me a private message or e-mail with details if you can. I have a client on the lookout for a working one at the moment.

Originally Posted by B&Tan

Ever thought of a gordon setter, there will be a litter from working lines coming up around xmas. You are right, nothing beats watching a good setter/pointer working.

What are details of this breeding?

There is one floating around my area as well

Originally Posted by Tlane

On a side note, just got back from the UK. Noticed that many of the versatiles over there seem a bit more sane than many of the same dogs you see in NZ. Is there an issue in NZ with concentration of lines, or is it more a reflection on the breeding?

Yep that has everything to do with breeding and having the right working blood available to work with. Good observation. Sadly the show crew have had a negative effect on many breeds here. But all of the breeds have excellent workers available if your due diligence is thorough.

I agree with Ebees that a good WORKING bred Labrador is your best bet for a first dog. WORKING does not mean someone took it hunting, it's mother hunting, or father and never took it to a show. It is a definate and in most cases separate strain of the breed which has had it's breeding focused solely on hunting traits for so many generations nothing else appears in the pedigree.

(BTW, I'm the one who sent you an e-mail yesterday, just so you know who you are talking to).

Originally Posted by Tlane

EeeBees - reading through similar posts on this site, there seems to be a view that versatiles are 'harder' dogs that are at the more extreme end when it comes to training. As performers, a pointer is my ideal dog - not much beats watching them work. But there's not much pleasure in watching a poorly trained dog, and even less in working with one (let alone owning it!). Realising that any dog is only going to be as good as the training it's given, I'm committed to giving it everything I've got. If I was hunting every day I wouldn't hesitate to go for a GWP, but wonder whether I'm better to go for a different breed that would be more forgiving?
?

To me, the dog must have prey drive, he must have passion, intent, boldness and will...you can train a dog as much as you like; I think there is too much emphasis on training than on hunting...if you want a good hunting dog take it hunting...as they mature they 'develop' as hunters just as we do...they can hold birds which they may not have done as a youngster. A hunted dog purposely seeks out places that he recognises as being possibly birdy...

What is a poorly trained dog...one man's idea of a poorly trained dog is invariably not another's. You can have all the fancy dropping, triple blind dummy retrieves and all that jazz but what of his real ability. Ever notice how you can bag a bird in a locale and your dog even three years later will return to that very spot the bird was pointed, flushed and retrieved. That is a hunting dog to me. A good hunting dog. Who through confidence in his owner is given licence to search without endless whistle blowing and stifling control.

Originally Posted by EeeBees

You can have all the fancy dropping, triple blind dummy retrieves and all that jazz but what of his real ability. Ever notice how you can bag a bird in a locale and your dog even three years later will return to that very spot the bird was pointed, flushed and retrieved. That is a hunting dog to me. A good hunting dog. Who through confidence in his owner is given licence to search without endless whistle blowing and stifling control.

Open the wine Victoria, we are almost in agreement!

I disagree that one person's opinion of what constitutes a well trained dog is different to another. A well trained dog is well trained and there's no if's or buts about it. A well bred dog that performs well with little training is not well trained. It's well bred. I agree with your points about what can be bred and what can be trained but I have to challenge this "Ever notice how you can bag a bird in a locale and your dog even three years later will return to that very spot the bird was pointed, flushed and retrieved." That's not well bred, or even well trained. That's just a dog with a good memory!

But, going back to agreeing.... If you get a bidible, driven, intelligent dog that has, through experience learned to use it's nose to greatest effect, find and produce game for the gun which is also well trained, remains calm and under control at all times, the owner has, knowing they have great genetics, invested time into having a dog which hunts and remains with range, is steady to the flush and shot, retrieves efficiently and on command and is capable of multiple bird retrieves on land and or water then you have a champion to be envied. To have a mediocre dog highly trained is still only a well trained mediocre dog and the person who has the well bred hunting machine who has done little training usually owns a menace which costs game... they tend to hunt alone a lot.

I hear many breeders contend what you do and often, no disrespect, it is because they know their genetics and do not know much about handling, so they dismiss what they do not know.

Originally Posted by EeeBees

Who through confidence in his owner is given licence to search without endless whistle blowing and stifling control.

That is a badly trained dog. A good dog, highly trained, develops a lot more confidence and requires little handling by the handler. Constant whistle blowing is not the mark of the good trainer at all. Getting a response to every whistle only given when required is the mark of a good trainer/handler.
At the end of the day, if you have a passion for great gundog work, and the time you get a breed of the finest genetics you can locate and you train to the best of your ability and you will end up with a dog to be envied by almost everyone... the only doubters will be folks who have dogs of a similar standard and then you are just talking about obsessive's like me!