I don't think the NZGTA will go under, I expect we will all get lumped with a 'Teresa tax' (you heard that here first folks, (c) pointer 2016 haha)
And let's face it if it does go under, something new will rise from the ashes. There's too many dog triallists out there
Not often you have my full agreement. You got it this time! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
if the nzgta could come up with a way of suborting some of the agility crew or geting more support with a less stringent kind of agility/hunting related type test while still employing pedigree standards.
these tests could lead to serious trialing or just be a indicator of ability in a still pedigree dog in a less stringent and competition focussed environment.
in truth it was the the agility people that put pressure on nzkc to repel the support for tail docking....nzkc listen to the biggest payers.
and checked my inbox just now and an email from Eugenie, it's official they have ran out of money and are calling for donations to support the legal costs and we have a new Teresa tax(c)2016
...........levys gone from $2 to $5.
So the Teresa Tax is official? Should send her the bill. Thanks for stuffing it for everyone.
That would, I believe, be the final death cough!Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
Yep had that myself a couple of days ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
So who has dropped the NZGTA Exec an email offering them your support in the face of this lot of rubbish? Or better yet, dropped a few notes into their bank account?
Because Lawyers don't work for free while the additional income is generated through increased Trials levies.
I'm sure your comments and generosity would be gratefully received and greatly appreciated!
Quite right. My support has been offered fully and directly with both the President and Secretary. Dollars I do not have enough for myself, but when I enter a dog in trial my contribution will be increased. It'd be nice to be able to do more, and I am sure many will.Quote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
I have! I got furtive phone calls in the night from @Liesel to do so :)
NZKC is wanting to rebrand to DogsNZ.
Mutts NZ would be more like it.
A good idea would be to restrict your donations to the running of the NZGDTA and not for legal fees.
the legal fees need to be paid for there to be a nzgta.
I'm all for a version of the US FDSB, except it can be like our sheep dog trials stud book, it has to place to be eligible for registry :cool:
Following the Australian example...DogsVictoria, etc etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP
My thoughts too EBs. Dogsvic etc . Also following thier rules regarding docking and breeding
My only question is...why? It seems they want to break it so it can be fixed...
When will the dog world realise they are killing it. Joe Blow can't be fucked with the bullshit so stay away, all the bullshit fees etc if you want to breed with papers. Got to join this but can't until you join that first. In house fighting and bullshit politics.
A simple registry is all that is actually needed, minimal costs involved, takes the politics right out of it. Instead we have a revenue gathering exercise going on.
Look mate, your recommendations verge on the ridiculous, I am guessing because you haven't got a clue what the situation is, how the old system has worked, how any new system may work and what has happened to cause this temporary hiccup in the overall scheme of things which, ultimately, may well welcome in a new and better system of running things. However, for your information, no one has to join anything, pay anything to anyone to own a pedigree dog. That is done, initially, by the breeder and sticks for life. If you want to trial, you join a trial club. That's it, so crawl back into your rabbit burrow! One thing is for sure... any new system will be based on the opinions, advice and knowledge of those who actually know something about breeding dogs to type for purpose and not some troll who runs a pack of rabbit dogs... something I could teach someone to do in about ten minutes of down time between serious training. If you doubt my pedigree in that regard I was raised by an Otago man who worked rabbits professionally with lurchers, spaniels, terriers and a multitude of others (Including ferrets) long before you drew breath. I know you are just trolling, but try and get better at it. You are not even the first word on dogs, their training or hunting them, let alone the last.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirehunt
Discussed this with someone involved today and they expressed a thought I had not considered. They wish to support the NZGTA, but do not want any donation to simply line any lawyers pocket on either side... NZGTA has my support, but I do see the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
i said good day sir lest you feel the wieght of my cane;):D:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruff
the only thing holding the nzgta lack is grunts =money the only thing giving the kc thier sence of entitlement is thier power to levy fee,s over a larger group.
seems to me that situation has to reverse for somethng to change??
My puppies go to hunters, they are sold as registered...not because I feel compelled to hand over heaps of ducats but it is my stance that I do so...even if the pedigree may or may not mean anything to the buyer...if supporting an ivory tower is wrong then I await for change...
As usual @Ruff has gone off half cocked, or maybe that's fired on an empty chamber.
I did the registered kennel thing many years ago when I bred purebreds, before the GWP had the following it now has. To do that you had to be a member of the kennel club, but you had to be a member of a local/small club first. Has this now changed?
Births deaths and marriages it costs for the flowery package under $40 to register the birth of a kid and get the flash paperwork.. Why would a dogs birth be worth so much more????????
What's that got to do with the NZKC? It's the NZGTA that is in jeopardy!
I may be wrong, but I think wirehunt and I are saying the same thing. Pedigree dog world is top heavy with paper pushers, hoop jumpers and ribbon collectors. Maybe time for a revamp of the registry idea. It would coincide with a new NZGTA nicely
I don't disagree, but in terms of what he was saying re NZKC and member clubs membership etc that has always been true of any dog, not just gundogs, so the comments had, in my view, little relevance to the NZGTA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
I don;t disagree with the premise and would go as far to say a Retriever Club, Spaniel Club and Pointer and Setter Club affiliated directly with NZKC may be where we end up and the NZGTA would cease to exist. It would be sad to lose that piece of trialing history but we may be too far down the hole to resurrect it now.
Perhaps being affiliated to the NZKC for the trialing of gundogs would be a good idea...I have attended a few annual general meetings (NZGTA) and I must say there were some rather acrimonious moments...nothing out of the norm with a room full of people all very passionate about their breeds and furthering the interest be it for all and/or for themselves...however, the gundog fraternity would have to insist on a trialist to be party to the executive...the likes of rally-o people would never get it...:P:D
Why anyone would think its a good idea for multiple, smaller, gun-dog groups to be directly affiliated to the NZKC is completely beyond me. The NZKC have already shown that they are not acting in our (and dogs) interests by ignoring the NZGTA on the docking issue......you would have even less chance of being listened to as an even smaller minority.
as a group we have not had a seat at the NZKC table that was anything other than there to make up the numbers.
spread too thin with too many inactive or struggling regional clubs has weakened a once strong voice.
the current state of affairs with NZGTA is with NZKC at the moment so we await a ruling from the people elected on our behalf.
if it is anything like the stab in the back over tail docking, having a plan B is not such bad idea.
the respective clubs are in fact very strong in there own right.
My thoughts too. I'd imagine going the way of the Europeans where the breed clubs hold their own trials might be an option
it's pretty much the same as what we have here, all fall under the FCI.
the only point of difference is the breed and field trial / test clubs are listened too.
Because at the moment they all exist and are affiliated to the NZGTA and then the NZKC. Maybe cutting out the middle ground isn;t a bad idea?Quote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
As all changes, judges appointments and Cc go through the nzkc anyway maybe you have a point.
Not a shit show that 3 women could hire a lawyer and bankrupt the nzkc is it........ Sad that it comes down to who has the deepest pockets.
Earlier problems requiring lawyer fees before this latest issue. Even if these people are right, they are still destroying an association that will reflect on all gundog trials, all the volunteers that get out there to make a day of it for everyone. Very sad business indeed.
the earlier problems were also with the sinclairs.
Email from the MPI lady...mmmmmmmmmmm...she wrote...the tail banding was "particularly contentious"....
fingers crossed they get someone with some commonsence;)Quote:
Good afternoon,
As you are aware, MPI developed a package of proposed regulations relating to the care and conduct of animals and surgical and painful procedures. The proposed regulations were put out for public consultation in April/May 2016. The consultation period was followed by public meetings across the country, as well as the Companion Animals Workshop on 11 May 2015.
You are receiving this email because you have made a submission in relation to proposal 62 relating to the docking of dogs’ tails. This email is to inform you of our plans in relation to the dog tail docking proposal.
Since the public consultation period, our priority has been on the bobby calves and live animal export proposals; a number of which are now in place.
Our focus is now turning to the rest of the regulatory proposals. We have now had the opportunity to review the submissions on dog tail docking, and recognise that the issue is particularly contentious. Therefore, we would like to engage a further, independent process to assist us in determining the best way forward with this proposal.
We will be commissioning an overseas expert to review all of the submissions we have received, along with the Act, Code of Welfare for Dogs and any additional relevant science. We are asking the expert to come to a determination on a number of questions that will then guide us in whether and/or how this proposal should be progressed.
We are now finalising a terms of reference document for the independent reviewer. The questions for determination that we will be asking the reviewer will help us to decide whether any pain or distress caused by tail docking is unreasonable or unnecessary in terms of the Animal Welfare Act; and whether in any event tail docking is a significant surgical procedure according to amendments made to the Act last year.
We want to give you with the opportunity to provide any additional information relevant to the issues outlined in the above questions for the reviewer to take into account. Please note this additional information will not be recorded as a formal submission as the public consultation period is now closed. However, it will be forwarded to the independent reviewer and will form part of their brief for review.
Please can you provide this additional information to me at Nicky.Wynne@mpi.govt.nz by no later than 5pm 6 November 2016.
If you would like to discuss anything further, please call either myself (04 894 2446) or Phillipa Aldridge (04 894 2616).
Kind regards,
Nicky Wynne | Senior Policy Analyst
Biosecurity & Animal Welfare Policy | Policy and Trade
Ministry for Primary Industries | Pastoral House, 25 The Terrace | PO Box 2526 | Wellington | New Zealand
Telephone: (04) 894 2446| Web: Home | MPI - Ministry for Primary Industries. A New Zealand Government Department.
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I certainly hope so, @gsp follower...
It looks like common sense, or at least the Scottish version of it, may have broken out
Scotland
More reading on the issue as presented to their parliament here:
Analysis of Responses to the Consultation on the Proposal to Permit Tail Docking of Working Spaniels and Hunt Point Retrievers
it is a shame the council of docked breeds which looks after the accreddited tail banders has an all or nothing approach in regards to defending the right to dock.
they do not in any way have a back up plan for working gundogs, it is up to the nzgta and the various gundog clubs to ask for the same exceptions as the uk.