Thread: Aiming without sights

Wether you're using rifle, pistol or shotgun, by practicing slow, smooth and sound techniques you will over time build better instinctive results.

I still think and feel like I am pretty slow in an ISPC environment but I have actually sped up in a lot of areas dramatically from when I started. The shot clock doesn't lie.
Time and practice is all that is needed.


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Hello,

Fine muscle coordination breaks down under stress.

Train to index the sights to your eye, and the pistol to your body.

The only time I do not use sights is very close in. I draw (strong side) and turn my gun hand palm up to shoot. This locks my wrist and helps in recoil management and return to zero.

Regards,

Josh

Originally Posted by Savage1

Is there a certain way to learn how to instinctively shoot without using the sights on a pistol? Especially at speed. Not after small groups.

I know about the sight picture/alignment but I'd rather keep my concentration on the target rather than have a blurry target and sharp front post.

I'm guessing it is just going to be 10s of thousands of rounds at paper and plates. I suppose I should join the club, just not interested in competition shooting, I just want to blast away.

I read about the technique in 'Inside Delta Force' by Eric HANEY, great book.

You can't learn instincts.

Point shooting has commonly been given, incorrectly, the term "instinctive" shooting. Instincts, relate to a natural ability.

I took the Combat Focus shooting course many years ago, which expanded on the training and experiences that Applegate, Fairbarn and Sykes developed. I believe that training in a system using a point shooting method, does have a sound place in the training agenda for those employing small arms.

I would recommend the book "Bulleyes don't Shoot Back" by Michael Janich (a very knowledgeable, and nice bloke) and Col Rex Applegate.
Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back: The Complete Textbook of Point Shooting for Close Quarters Combat: Rex Applegate, Michael Janich: 9780873649575: Amazon.com: Books

Rob Pincus's book "Combat Focus Shooting" is not as good, but does offer some worthwhile input in the concept.
Combat Focus Shooting: Evolution 2010: Rob Pincus, Betty Shonts: 9780979150876: Amazon.com: Books

An older video on the Combat Focus Shooting Course is available on YouTube ( I haven't watched it, so can't comment on it's worth).

Originally Posted by Koshogi

You can't learn instincts.

Point shooting has commonly been given, incorrectly, the term "instinctive" shooting. Instincts, relate to a natural ability.

I took the Combat Focus shooting course many years ago, which expanded on the training and experiences that Applegate, Fairbarn and Sykes developed. I believe that training in a system using a point shooting method, does have a sound place in the training agenda for those employing small arms.

I would recommend the book "Bulleyes don't Shoot Back" by Michael Janich (a very knowledgeable, and nice bloke) and Col Rex Applegate.
Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back: The Complete Textbook of Point Shooting for Close Quarters Combat: Rex Applegate, Michael Janich: 9780873649575: Amazon.com: Books

Rob Pincus's book "Combat Focus Shooting" is not as good, but does offer some worthwhile input in the concept.
Combat Focus Shooting: Evolution 2010: Rob Pincus, Betty Shonts: 9780979150876: Amazon.com: Books

An older video on the Combat Focus Shooting Course is available on YouTube ( I haven't watched it, so can't comment on it's worth).

You are thinking of the term "Instinctive" or as you put it "Instincts" to literally.

Instinct combat shooting: The act of operating a weapon by focusing on the target and instinctively coordinating the hand and mind to cause the weapon to discharge at a time and point that ensures interception of the target with the projectile.

This is a skill that most definitely can be learned. If it is the term (everyone is using) that you are worried about then that is just semantics...

Originally Posted by Shooter

Instinct combat shooting: The act of operating a weapon by focusing on the target and instinctively coordinating the hand and mind to cause the weapon to discharge at a time and point that ensures interception of the target with the projectile.

While I can understand Chuck Klein's "interpretation" of the term 'instinctive shooting' to validate his opinion. In reality, he is merely attempting to change the definition of a word to suit his liking. The use of ANY weapon or tool by a human is not and can not be classed as instinctive.

Originally Posted by Shooter

If it is the term (everyone is using) that you are worried about then that is just semantics...

Yes, the meaning of a word is unimportant in a conversation.....

Once again you are reading to deep in to the use of words. "Instinctive" can be used in many forms... "An action done or happening without logical thought" much like a sportsman throws or kicks a ball...

If you practice a drill over and over then yes your actions can become instinctive in that your actions will move quicker than your logical/cognitive ability. Be careful buying in to some "FAD" course that you have recently done and then take for gospel. Instinctive shooting builds the basis of all combat shooting techniques regardless of what professional force your were trained with... Yes that's right even your army (well past army) uses and employs "instinctive shooting".

Point and shoot is just an adaptation of the underlying fundamentals of "instinctive shooting".

Originally Posted by Shooter

If you practice a drill over and over then yes your actions can become instinctive in that your actions will move quicker than your logical/cognitive ability.

No, it will become a learned behavior. You will move quicker due to muscle memory and reducing the reaction time based upon repeated external stimuli.

Originally Posted by Shooter

Be careful buying in to some "FAD" course that you have recently done and then take for gospel.

Actually, I took the course over ten years ago. I have taken several pistol courses over the years, the Combat Focus Shooting course was the only one that taught point shooting. So I wouldn't quite say I'm taking a 'FAD" course as "gospel".

You can certainly use your instincts to aid your shooting, but you can't instinctively shoot.

I turn my handguns on the side and never look down the sights ....that's why I suck ....

Originally Posted by stumpy

I turn my handguns on the side and never look down the sights ....that's why I suck ....

@stumpy

If your aiming your Shoota Gansta Styles you'll never hit anything unless you also say these magic words

"Yo Mo Fo!!!, Give it Up or I'll put a Cap in your Ass"

It also helps if you have your hat on backwards and your oversize pants down around your knees too.

Cheers
Pete

This isn't combat or defensive - it's running and IPSC. Look at the target close to you, point at it and shoot.

/end thread.

What isn't combat? The technique or the situation that requires you to employ it.

Savage1 started this thread looking for advice on acquiring the skills to shoot without aiming. This relates to instinctive shooting which falls very well in to combat shooting techniques regardless of your perceived relevance. Look at the many books that have been suggested to read and the one he himself has read, most of which are combat centered. Why? Because they are all realistic and experience driven techniques. Much of what IPSC is all about was founded via combat training and adapted to suit mainstream competition minded shooters..