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The split is certainly less marked in Versatiles than others, but it still should not be ignored. Compromise is compromise... and compromise never means better or best.

Sorry if I came off as flippant, I wasn't, I meant it.

Over the years i have owned and hunted over Spaniels, Labs, a GSP, a few crosses.... In training I have worked just about every popular...

I'm a dog man.

Absolutely!

Always an exciting time.

If you don;t run them against known quantities how do you know they are anything more than reasonable?

But trial results can and should shape a breed and is the best place to get an overview of the breed.

It makes absolute sense and has been a problem with our pigeon trial negative judging system for a long time... Pigeon trials rewardthe training more than the dog. A dynamic with great pace style and...

Meybe you need to know a little more about some of us then.... I hunt dogs EVERY DAY!

I have to disagree... certainly a well trained dog can appear to be a better dog than an untrained one, and a great dog with massive drive untrained is a menace... but the old axiom of "you can kick...

Exactly.... :D

I really just wanted to wind you both up... really... the discussion can on infinitely... the point I am really making in all this is actually how trials started.

At the end of the day... one dog...

Well, I'm not stupid enough to invite you two bastards to shoot my birds, but you do have to make up your minds... LOL :D

Let's not just wank on in a forum environment.... and I think we have here...

Hunting or trialling.... I got grounds if you both want to come.... and if you trust me me to judge... :)

Well of course there is flaws... the difference, simply, between a scenario where it is you and your dog and when it is you, two guns, a judge, a steward and gallery must have an effect.... Trials...

No, we disagree.... :yuush:

You see some use the axiom quoted above to dismiss why their dog does not excell in trials... that's just a cop out.

A great hunting dog is a great trialling dog......

Wow, a pretty Big claim there mate. I have always believe trials are an extremely valuable test but... and here's is my main axiom... "when the trial becomes the end goal, the breed is fucked"

A...

I agree... performance alone would be enough for me... at some point you need to test of there is some ability to pass on the desired traits... it is unlikely the pedigree will indicate how.

Wirehair, I don;t think you should give my posts any more credibility than I have given yours... It's just an opinion. I think it's based on something, but you'd have to take that on trust and...

i kind of am.... :cool:

I've run them all... crosses and purebreds and for the longest time i would have agreed with you...

The old man was on the rabbit board down south and he had lurchers,...

I think that's true of all dogs Wirehair... work and experience count for a lot...

but it comes under the category of "all things being equal".

My dogs work every single day too... I'm lucky,...

LOL

:thumbsup:

Yeah I get that... :thumbsup:

I thought hunters with working lines were the purists? :pacman: