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subs without suppressor are quieter or on par with supers with suppressor DEPENDING on barrel length.....try one and see...its not a big bang at all ,more of a pop. no recoil and still useful

and NOW you will see WHY so many have given it up........when it works its as good as a arrow...when it doesnt,its as bad as an arrow....
sorry to hear you have lost a deer,you did your best to find...

ok Dad....will keep drilling them with 7mm drill for now.......they sure do the bizo on small stuff,sooner or later a deer will make a slip and will get to see how good on them too LOL.

STOP IT...... them are nearly enough to arouse a fella.......when are you going to do same in .45cal???

the trick will be finding something good ballistically that will still expand.....and will ballistic form matter a hoot if subsonic??? or is a flying brick the same no matter its shape?