Thread: Long Range Hunting and F-Class Target Shooting.

Originally Posted by Jhon

@canross, agree with comments and dilemma re time etc. @19Badger maybe elitist was a poor choice of word. The point I was trying to make, perhaps badly, was having been to a member of a couple of NZDA ranges over the years, they seem fixated on the 3/4p courses of fire. Unless perhaps Silhouette is being shot. That's fine and I've participated. However as I've grown older, and crankier, I am less and less inclined to lower my old carcass to the ground. Actually its not the going down or even being uncomfortably prone as much as the getting up again lol.

Maybe it's just a young person's game after all. And yet I can shoot offhand and off sticks as much as I want. There are no courses of fire being offered that allow me to participate in that way. I would love to move from sub 200m to competency at 300+ The range days offered however are base on 3/4p shooting only. And with a range open only on weekends there are no flexi hours available for individual shooters or small groups doing their particular thing.

My solution is simply to go off on my own to a private bit of land whenever I can. I would prefer to shoot in a club with others. I keep running into folk who likewise eschew their local clubs simply because of the rigid insistence on the traditions of 3/4p shooting. Anyway enough. The problem will go away in a few years lol

Perhaps it was a poor choice of words.
I whole heartedly agree with you and can relate to the getting up bit.
It has been my thought for some time that clubs/branches should diversify what they offer. My thoughts are that ranges should offer days where any position/discipline can be used/shot not just the 3/4p positions but off sticks/bipods/benches/whatever and should have competition days that cater to the various positions, as not everyone is interested in the same thing.
Offering the same thing over and over with no variety probably reduces the participation.

What is allowed on ranges does come down to what the range standing orders allow, I know of ranges where you can shoot at 100 from any position but beyond 100 you have to shoot prone.
We do have a serious lack of available ranges in New Zealand and a lot of restrictions on the ranges that are available

To be successful I think you need to practise, this aids you in being able to make successful shots that you may not have felt comfortable doing before, and I agree with Friwi out in the field is different to shooting on the range. With that in mind the range time has given me confidence in my rifle and myself that I wouldn't have had if I didn't spend that time on the range.

Some of the posts have been quite enlightening and highlight some problems.

My boss many years ago said to me people will make happen what they want to happen regardless of the barrier, that was quite a statement to a young person and I still think of that today and as I've grown older I realise this is true in many ways.

Having just spent 4 hours at the range (and still going) hosting a deerstalkers pre roar zero session, and contemplating having to spend at least another 5-6 hours in the office this week working on the new standing orders to make our 600Y range more versatile - my challenge to most shooters is "what have you contributed to your local range? Time - fuck all people do that, money, yes a few people dont seem to mind paying. But meaningful input is bloody scant.

Greetings all,
So to summarise.
NZDA Rifle Ranges mostly only go to 200 metres if that. This does not meet the need for longer range testing for those that shoot at longer range
NRA Type Rifle Ranges often are out to 1,000 yards. There are plenty of these, roughly 10 in the North Island and 8 in the South. Two of these held shoots that should appeal to hunters this weekend.
So those that have the need for the longer ranges should join the clubs that have them. Right? Of course right. There is no law in NZ that says that you can't join more than one shooting club.
So harden up people. Go along to your local rifle club and join. Shoot their shoots for a start. The electronic scoring is great and you can take your results home on your phone or whatever. It might help to breath through your nose for a bit as well.
Regards Grandpamac.

Having read most of the coments and I follow them with great interest.

Shooting has changed all over the world, people are less inclined to shoot the disiplaned of yesteryear. 4P and simular disiplanes has slowly been getting less and less support.

But the 4 basic positions are still important, we still need to get shooters to practice them....but expecting them to pitch up for 4P every weekend? Thats like beating a dead donkey.

Something Ive seen that works is clubs that developed new dissiplanes, with different targets(Life sized animal targets with score zones are very popular. )

Something like this.
To practice unsupported standing:
Target = Pig(brought side)
75m - standing or kneeling- 3 well aimed shots in 60 seconds.
50m - standing - 3 shots in 30 seconds.
25m - standing 3 shots(snap fire)
(5 seconds per shot)


There are so many different ideas one can do to make it interesting.

Maybe I should put my hand up for Shooting Coordinator at my local club. Not all that often that the position comes up

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings all,
So to summarise.
NZDA Rifle Ranges mostly only go to 200 metres if that. This does not meet the need for longer range testing for those that shoot at longer range
NRA Type Rifle Ranges often are out to 1,000 yards. There are plenty of these, roughly 10 in the North Island and 8 in the South. Two of these held shoots that should appeal to hunters this weekend.
So those that have the need for the longer ranges should join the clubs that have them. Right? Of course right. There is no law in NZ that says that you can't join more than one shooting club.
So harden up people. Go along to your local rifle club and join. Shoot their shoots for a start. The electronic scoring is great and you can take your results home on your phone or whatever. It might help to breath through your nose for a bit as well.
Regards Grandpamac.

I am a fee paying member of 3 ranges with 100m, 200-300m and out to 700m facilities. I put nearly all my effort into one range. The one that is most flexible, most available and provides the most shooting options. That includes the non- shooting maintenance and support activities. There are not many in the membership who don't contribute one way or another. And sometimes a $$ contribution in lieu of physical presence is as valuable as anything else.

Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen

Having read most of the coments and I follow them with great interest.

Shooting has changed all over the world, people are less inclined to shoot the disiplaned of yesteryear. 4P and simular disiplanes has slowly been getting less and less support.

But the 4 basic positions are still important, we still need to get shooters to practice them....but expecting them to pitch up for 4P every weekend? Thats like beating a dead donkey.

Something Ive seen that works is clubs that developed new dissiplanes, with different targets(Life sized animal targets with score zones are very popular. )

Something like this.
To practice unsupported standing:
Target = Pig(brought side)
75m - standing or kneeling- 3 well aimed shots in 60 seconds.
50m - standing - 3 shots in 30 seconds.
25m - standing 3 shots(snap fire)
(5 seconds per shot)


There are so many different ideas one can do to make it interesting.

Maybe I should put my hand up for Shooting Coordinator at my local club. Not all that often that the position comes up

The Hastings Deerstalkers club had something like that. 300 yards prone with a day pack rest, 200 yards sitting and 100 yards standing. We may have used the Wilkinson Shoot deer target. The old Roy's Hill Range had a markers gallery so the ranges were one after another with only the time taken to walk up to the next mound between them. Another shoot included a snap of 5 seconds for each shot on the deer target. we also shot running boar. At another range a field shoot using animal paper targets with the .22 with unknown ranges was popular. There are heaps of options. Taupo NZDA still runs a varied programme. Today it was Running Target. In two weeks it is 4P 100 metre rimfire and centrefire plus Deer target. Next month it is Rimfire silhouette. Hastings NZDA has not shot their own comps since 2019.
Regards GPM.
GPM.

Having read most of the coments and I follow them with great interest.

Shooting has changed all over the world, people are less inclined to shoot the disiplaned of yesteryear. 4P and simular disiplanes has slowly been getting less and less support.

But the 4 basic positions are still important, we still need to get shooters to practice them....but expecting them to pitch up for 4P every weekend? Thats like beating a dead donkey.

Something Ive seen that works is clubs that developed new dissiplanes, with different targets(Life sized animal targets with score zones are very popular. )

Something like this.
To practice unsupported standing:
Target = Pig(brought side)
75m - standing or kneeling- 3 well aimed shots in 60 seconds.
50m - standing - 3 shots in 30 seconds.
25m - standing 3 shots(snap fire)
(5 seconds per shot)


There are so many different ideas one can do to make it interesting.

Maybe I should put my hand up for Shooting Coordinator at my local club. Not all that often that the position comes up

Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen

Having read most of the coments and I follow them with great interest.

Shooting has changed all over the world, people are less inclined to shoot the disiplaned of yesteryear. 4P and simular disiplanes has slowly been getting less and less support.

But the 4 basic positions are still important, we still need to get shooters to practice them....but expecting them to pitch up for 4P every weekend? Thats like beating a dead donkey.

Something Ive seen that works is clubs that developed new dissiplanes, with different targets(Life sized animal targets with score zones are very popular. )

Something like this.
To practice unsupported standing:
Target = Pig(brought side)
75m - standing or kneeling- 3 well aimed shots in 60 seconds.
50m - standing - 3 shots in 30 seconds.
25m - standing 3 shots(snap fire)
(5 seconds per shot)


There are so many different ideas one can do to make it interesting.

Maybe I should put my hand up for Shooting Coordinator at my local club. Not all that often that the position comes up

I've always thought that "team" competitions would be a way of sharing information and helping others, there is no "I" in team and to me this would hopefully encourage the team members to help each other.
Sharing all information lifts the standard of competition and helps others develop their skills be it reloading, shooting, wind reading, strategy.
This would also make good inter club/branch/organisation type events.

Just saw this on Accurate shooter, I was told that 200m rimfire fly gives similar results to centrefire 500m fly, I think the rules for the fly have changed a bit but one of the rules used to be if you aren't having fun you were disqualified.
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...lia-fly-shoot/

I really like team shooting. Tried to qualify every year to go to natiinals.

Like you say, its a really good way to share knowledge and train new shooters.

Originally Posted by Friwi

Just reading the few posts above.
I think we all agree that all the practice on paper we can get is valuable for the shots we take in the field.
Regarding the 3/4 position shooting, or shooting of sticks, all of it is good as long as we recognise the limits that each positions give us:
I.e, you might be able to take a standing 75m body shot ( talking about deer here), 100yard kneeling shot, a 150 yrds sitting shot and a 300 yards prone shot. Some might be able to strech those distances some not.

The difference with paper shooting, is that when you are hunting an animal, you lose a certain amount of your shooting abilities due to the adrenaline and the excitement of the hunt ( and also maybe from the mountain you just climbed or the 12 km you just walked). I have heard of a French guy who regularly goes to Scotland with his flash blaser , zeiss scope and all the gizmos , who shoot pretty well on paper, at fairly good distances. But when it comes to shooting an animal… let’s just say that the bullet rarely touches what he intending to shoot at. Obviously the excitement is taking over . That is one aspect of what can restrict our abilities that a lot of us are denying or conveniently forgot, it could be a male thing ,not willing to show emotions , that could be perceived as weakness…

Regarding the aspect of long range hunting and the chances of wounding animal, they do seriously exist. And the saying that “ plenty of animals have been lost at close range due to fuckups as well”, which indeed is true, is quite often an excuse used by guys who don’t want to be criticised for the shots they take at longer distance at animals , be it with a bow or a rifle . One example is the longrangehunting forum in the USA, which will close if not ban any discussion of the ethics of long range hunting… I guess it is not good for business .

One last thing I wanted to mention , is an example of the shoot we had today.
We had 11 teams of two shooters , shooting at 1000yrds. More than half of the guns on the lines were highly priced custom competition rifles ( prs or f class/f-pr) with fine tuned loads in good wind bucking calibers. Some of the shooters were very well seasoned shooters.
The course of fire was all shot prone. No time limit.
First target was an nra electronic target. 5 shot each (10 shots per team). Which effectively allows you to adjust for each shot to be as close to the center as possible.
The second target was a 1000 yrds benchrest target, again electronic, so you can refine as much as you possibly can where your shots are going within the atmospheric conditions.again 5 shots each.
The third target was a full size deer, side way. The aiming point is a 10” circle in the vital zone with activating plate in the background connecting to a red flasher. You are allowed three shots per shooter. And your team mate can spot for you.
Out of the 66 shots (11 teams of 2 x 3 bullets each), there was no more than 6 bullets that hit the 10” target, and only one got it on the first shot ( if I remember the stats well).
And again there is no adrenaline , no hunting pressure and no time limit.so you could pretty much pick your best wind moment within reason. Your scope dialed for the existing conditions and the distance .
I forgot to mentions the wind flags halfway and at the target.

This just to illustrate, that the long distance shots on animals , in hunting conditions is way harder than we think it is and that the success can quite often be attributed luck and that you will probably will never be shown the fuckups on videos.

So the more knowledge I gather the more I realise how much luck some lr hunters have.
Having been in the lr game way before it was the thing to do I have been regailed with stories of amazing shots at incredible distance for said calibre/chamberings.
The more I shoot the more I realise where my ethical shooting distances finish but that knowledge has given me the choice to adjust those distances as conditions allow.
I am fortunate enough that I can shoot steel and paper when ever I want and I do.
I now don't really worry about other hunters taking long shots that are beyond their skill level and equipment they are using as it would do my head in.
As a matter of interest friwi what distance was that deer target with the ten Inch plate.
I'm guessing 1000 yrds to have that fewer hits.
If it is, it's a good reminder that people's ability is less than what they think and should stick to rocks steel and paper at that distance.
3/4p shooting Is great practice for the unexpected which can happen often when hunting.
Sticks are bloody good to.
I use a quick detach tent pole style bipod which allows incredible stability when able to rest against an object int sitting position.
Use what you can.
M2c anyway

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Yep 1000yrds.