Thread: .243 load development part deux

Originally Posted by Stocky

@Zedrex i know your resistant to boattails would you try a rebated boat tail which according to the same people that like flat bases has the same benefits. Targex are cheap and they make a 95 version. @Tahr can vouche for there performance at an affordable rate.

I used the 90 and 95gr Targex 15+ years ago from a .243 with wonderful success, my longest kill was about 600 metres with them from memory.

I did do a horrendous amount of fucking around with loads at the time and man I wish I'd known what I know now, but that's life

Originally Posted by Tahr

You guys obviously enjoy the high level esoteric discussions and banter. Way over my head. And in practical terms I don't quite understand what the OP is seeking?

Im thinking about my 22 Creedmoor and boiling it down to practical hunting accuracy.

I went straight to max book loads and book OAL. Ive fired about 10 3 shot groups with it. 3 different bullets (70,80 & 88). Discarded 88 grn after 2x3 shots. Never over a MOA with other 2 and always same point of impact. Same powder and OAL. So thats about 24 shots into circa 1 moa. If it was 1.5MOA I wouldn't wring my hands over it.

Lent it to Craig and he hunted a couple of times with it. Dialed for one shot at 650 and got a deer. Back to me, dialed for one shot, 300 yd rabbit.

To the OP I envisage your 42 grn load doing the same thing.

Thats hunting accuracy.

Good platform, reliable scope, no fuss load development. Go home.

It's certainly easy with a custom rifle.

https://youtu.be/lF_E8xqN5Ho?si=Z1t1WRVXVs7Hj6Qz

Another decent watch.

@27 minutes he mentions even for his ARC which would be more sensitive to powder charge he throws within a 0.3grain window for prs/hunting. Scaling for case capacity that would be around 0.5 grains in 243.

Originally Posted by gimp

It's certainly easy with a custom rifle.

Yes. "Good platform"

Originally Posted by Pommy

but in it Mark brings up that charge weight, seating depth, barrel length, and temperature as also being things that tie into harmonics - all playing together with the aim of timing bullet exit with when the muzzle is resting. His main gripe with tuners is that temperature (of the barrel steel) is one that you cannot control and the effect it has means tuners cannot work as claimed, as the goalposts are moving too much.

Temperature also affects the powder (as none of them are perfectly temperature insensitive) so its impact can be twofold. If Mark's argument is that barrel tuners are snake oil because the effect that a small change in temp defeats whatever it is that they are claimed to be doing... does it not also stand to reason that the effect of tweaking charge weight or seating depth to try and control harmonics would also be undone by a change in temperature?

Which is pretty much what I said in the 3rd paragraph of my response that you quoted........
@gimp I didn't offer Mark as an expert, I used him as "evidence" for Pommy's comment that barrel harmonics didn't exist. To my mind charge weight MUST have an effect on harmonics AND I concede that it's likely of a negligible nature especially within the context of this discussion re developing a hunting load, we all seem to have got sidetracked somewhat, nonetheless it's an interesting aspect but not one that I'm following, I haven't watched that video yet but from your comments it seems there's none so blind as those that won't see.
@Warthog I chose the SST for a number of reasons, same weight and similar BC to the Deer Season I have been using, it's also a flat base projectile, which from my limited testing my Franchi Horizon 1:10 twist seems to prefer, barrel has shot maybe 300 rounds also lots of anecdotal testimonials as to it's effectiveness on medium game and upwards
@Micky Duck no it isn't lol
@whanahuia it's very possible that in going down the rabbit hole, I've blundered into the harmonics can of worms, trying to get back on track of keeping it simple....ish lol
@Billo not yet the SST is my first foray into handloading, what can you tell me about the BT?
@r87mm some people aren't at all confused about the difference between target and hunting accuracy, SOME people are just wanting to develop a load that shoots somewhere within a 3-4" radius on an average day hoping to run some loads over the chrono this weekend
@Micky Duck is that manual online? I'd be keen to see what you're talkin' about
@Shearer That's a whole other element lol my limited experience of having my rifle in a rest v's me holding it is that in the rest the rifle jumps around all over the place! I concede that the rest I was using may have been subpar but yeah, I'm not convinced especially as having the shooter attached to the rifle, the shooter's mass dampens the forces at work, so potentially using a rest gives false positives?
@Tahr just a reasonable load that shoots within a 3-4" radius on an average day...somewhere along the discussion we all got sidetracked, this may have been when I asked a question about harmonics.....
@Shearer maybe not for you now at this point in your reloading journey.....spare a thought for the past version of you that started out knowing nothing.........how many rabbit holes did you go down?
@whanahuia Cheers, back in the day, these things WERE called discussion boards lol
@Micky Duck yeah, I did about 6 weeks ago when I first started this journey!
@Stocky you're correct, they are not SST, Deer Season are Winchester's "own" projectile, which are available in the states and if I could figure a way to get some over here I would as that would be the simplest solution by a country mile but I can't...so here we are! And yes I could maybe allow myself to be talked into trying the Targex, what is @Tahr shooting (calibre/twist) but ONLY if A: Saturday shows that my load is a pile of shit or B: I go hunting with it and whatever I shoot doesn't go bang/flop (good shot placement being a given)
@gimp it only got "complicated" when I asked a question about harmonics and everyone collectively lost their shit, rather than just saying "bro, it's not relevant here" which would have saved a whole lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, some people love drama it seems

Thanks all, for your input and patience, it's appreciated and just this, each and everyone of you started at some point where I am now so keep explaining

Zedrex I can tell you if ya gun dont shoot a 90 or 95gr BT then bin it, the SST is a shit out average product from hornady that should be binned along with most of their brass

I dont know a single person who hunts with an SST

Originally Posted by Zedrex

Which is pretty much what I said in the 3rd paragraph of my response that you quoted........
@gimp I didn't offer Mark as an expert, I used him as "evidence" for Pommy's comment that barrel harmonics didn't exist. To my mind charge weight MUST have an effect on harmonics AND I concede that it's likely of a negligible nature especially within the context of this discussion re developing a hunting load, we all seem to have got sidetracked somewhat, nonetheless it's an interesting aspect but not one that I'm following, I haven't watched that video yet but from your comments it seems there's none so blind as those that won't see.
@Warthog I chose the SST for a number of reasons, same weight and similar BC to the Deer Season I have been using, it's also a flat base projectile, which from my limited testing my Franchi Horizon 1:10 twist seems to prefer, barrel has shot maybe 300 rounds also lots of anecdotal testimonials as to it's effectiveness on medium game and upwards
@Micky Duck no it isn't lol
@whanahuia it's very possible that in going down the rabbit hole, I've blundered into the harmonics can of worms, trying to get back on track of keeping it simple....ish lol
@Billo not yet the SST is my first foray into handloading, what can you tell me about the BT?
@r87mm some people aren't at all confused about the difference between target and hunting accuracy, SOME people are just wanting to develop a load that shoots somewhere within a 3-4" radius on an average day hoping to run some loads over the chrono this weekend
@Micky Duck is that manual online? I'd be keen to see what you're talkin' about
@Shearer That's a whole other element lol my limited experience of having my rifle in a rest v's me holding it is that in the rest the rifle jumps around all over the place! I concede that the rest I was using may have been subpar but yeah, I'm not convinced especially as having the shooter attached to the rifle, the shooter's mass dampens the forces at work, so potentially using a rest gives false positives?
@Tahr just a reasonable load that shoots within a 3-4" radius on an average day...somewhere along the discussion we all got sidetracked, this may have been when I asked a question about harmonics.....
@Shearer maybe not for you now at this point in your reloading journey.....spare a thought for the past version of you that started out knowing nothing.........how many rabbit holes did you go down?
@whanahuia Cheers, back in the day, these things WERE called discussion boards lol
@Micky Duck yeah, I did about 6 weeks ago when I first started this journey!
@Stocky you're correct, they are not SST, Deer Season are Winchester's "own" projectile, which are available in the states and if I could figure a way to get some over here I would as that would be the simplest solution by a country mile but I can't...so here we are! And yes I could maybe allow myself to be talked into trying the Targex, what is @Tahr shooting (calibre/twist) but ONLY if A: Saturday shows that my load is a pile of shit or B: I go hunting with it and whatever I shoot doesn't go bang/flop (good shot placement being a given)
@gimp it only got "complicated" when I asked a question about harmonics and everyone collectively lost their shit, rather than just saying "bro, it's not relevant here" which would have saved a whole lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, some people love drama it seems

Thanks all, for your input and patience, it's appreciated and just this, each and everyone of you started at some point where I am now so keep explaining

Just a note but bang flops aren't usually good placwment
It's usually Central nervous system shots high shoulder, spine, neck, head.

And harmonics this has a few remarks about the same science of it and that they exist but the is absolutely no way to utilise them.
https://youtu.be/1J3qNTZgtJI?si=ONR-k89tpvw1f8sE

Originally Posted by Billo

Zedrex I can tell you if ya gun dont shoot a 90 or 95gr BT then bin it, the SST is a shit out average product from hornady that should be binned along with most of their brass

I dont know a single person who hunts with an SST

Over my last 5 nights culling I shot 108 deer and 23 pigs. These were all shot with the .243 using a mixture of Winchester deer season ammo and 95gr sst.
At least 20 of these animals were shot over 500 yards.
Sst is far cheaper than the BT and does equally as good job in many calibers. Mightn't matter if you are shooting low volume but high volume that extra price with very little benefit doesn't cut it.

The targex projectiles are awesome too.

Originally Posted by Billo

Zedrex I can tell you if ya gun dont shoot a 90 or 95gr BT then bin it, the SST is a shit out average product from hornady that should be binned along with most of their brass

I dont know a single person who hunts with an SST

On one side of the coin is some aussie hillbilly swears "it's shit" - on the other is a billion dollar company making more cause the people want it.........

Dire Straights frame it perfectly: two men say they're jesus, one of them must be wrong.....

Yeah shit out average needs more definition. What why and how exactly?

I used the Hornady Superformance With the SST and it was accurate and worked very well in my 270.

That stuff is subjective. It worked well for me and how I used them, But Billo might have different criteria. These really are only things you can work out for yourself often.

Originally Posted by TLB

Over my last 5 nights culling I shot 108 deer and 23 pigs. These were all shot with the .243 using a mixture of Winchester deer season ammo and 95gr sst.
At least 20 of these animals were shot over 500 yards.
Sst is far cheaper than the BT and does equally as good job in many calibers. Mightn't matter if you are shooting low volume but high volume that extra price with very little benefit doesn't cut it.

The targex projectiles are awesome too.

Yep, the 95 SST in .243 is accurate, destructive, readily available and cheap. What's not to like about that? ( of course you have to have actually shot deer with it to understand this).

Originally Posted by Billo

Zedrex I can tell you if ya gun dont shoot a 90 or 95gr BT then bin it, the SST is a shit out average product from hornady that should be binned along with most of their brass

I dont know a single person who hunts with an SST

So ya not a Hornady fan huh....
....individual results may vary

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Originally Posted by Stocky

Just a note but bang flops aren't usually good placwment
It's usually Central nervous system shots high shoulder, spine, neck, head.

And harmonics this has a few remarks about the same science of it and that they exist but the is absolutely no way to utilise them.
https://youtu.be/1J3qNTZgtJI?si=ONR-k89tpvw1f8sE

Well in my world that IS the definition of good shot placement, instant coma quick death, minimal meat damage, it's not the only shot but it's been working well for me this far

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Originally Posted by TLB

Over my last 5 nights culling I shot 108 deer and 23 pigs. These were all shot with the .243 using a mixture of Winchester deer season ammo and 95gr sst.
At least 20 of these animals were shot over 500 yards.
Sst is far cheaper than the BT and does equally as good job in many calibers. Mightn't matter if you are shooting low volume but high volume that extra price with very little benefit doesn't cut it.

The targex projectiles are awesome too.

First hand Experience has entered the chat lol That's good to know and that it's working out to those distances. Would you care to share your load data on the SST? I'd be VERY interested in that

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Originally Posted by 257weatherby

On one side of the coin is some aussie hillbilly swears "it's shit" - on the other is a billion dollar company making more cause the people want it.........

Dire Straights frame it perfectly: two men say they're jesus, one of them must be wrong.....

Lol!

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